Why do some say that there are no more apostles and prophets today for the church?

Why do so many believe today in the traditional churches that there are no longer need for the apostles and prophets? The Apostle Paul said in Ephesians 4:11: God has placed some apostles and some prophets , evangelists and some pastors and teachers for the working of the ministry.

Ephesians 4:11

ESV - 11 And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers.

Clarify (1) Share Report Asked August 25 2014 Mini Anonymous

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Image41 Ezekiel Kimosop
First it is instructive to note that the office of apostle ceased with the apostolic age and there can never be a living apostle today and neither was there one after the apostolic church age which ended in the 1st Century AD. 

Tradition holds it that John was the only living apostle when he wrote the Book of Revelation. Some skeptics have asked why Paul mentions the apostles among the church ministry offices in Ephesians 4:11. In answering this question we need to bear in mind that at the time of Paul’s ministry; most of the apostles were still alive and active in ministry which cut across the Jerusalem and Gentile church divisions. Some of the apostles such as James brother of John were martyred by Herod and other cruel Roman emperors (Acts 12:1-2) but a few lived on and wrote the Scriptures we have today. Paul was therefore justified in ranking the apostolic office above and alongside the other church ministry offices. It is my view that no theological justification or scriptural authority exists for reinstituting the apostolic office today. 

An apostle was an eye witness of Christ’s ministry and his resurrection. Mathias who replaced Judas was an eyewitness of Christ and was therefore qualified to hold the office (Acts 1:1-21). There is no record of any further apostolic appointment in Scripture except for Paul who was not among the original twelve apostles but was later called by Christ into apostolic ministry in person (Acts 9:1-28). Paul headed the Gentile ministry while Peter, John and James (the brother of the Lord) were in charge of the Jerusalem see.

Now lets examine the million dollar question. Do we have apostles and prophets in the church today? This depends on the understanding of the role of New Testament prophecy. The principal purpose of the prophetic ministry in the last days concerns the proclamation of God’s Word. Corinthians 12:10 “…to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits…” the same gift is also mentioned in 1 Corinthians 14:4 “…but he that prophesieth edifieth the church…”. Paul teaches that the Holy Spirit endows the believers with divers gifts all of which should be used for the edification of the church. The Geneva Bible describes the act of prophesying as that “Which may further men in the study of godliness” The idea of prophetic ministry concerning itself about the unknown or unrevealed truth is misleading. 
Do we have living apostles today? Certainly none at all. Those who claim to be apostles today can actually pass for Bishops or overseers but the title has been loosely applied to senior positions in church ministry circles, resulting in much confusion. None of the men who lay claim to the title of apostle today have seen the Lord in person. My view is that the claim to apostolic authority in charismatic circles is unbiblical.

August 26 2014 9 responses Vote Up Share Report

Closeup Jennifer Rothnie Supporter Housewife, Artist, Perpetually Curious
I believe some claim that there are no more apostles out of confusion as to what an apostle is. Apostolos simply means "a messenger, an envoy, a delegate, one commissioned by another to represent him". (Rom 10:14-15) In a general sense, then, every Christian is to be an apostle (II Cor 5:16-20), for we have been accepted Christ's commission to share the good news that God reconciles us to Him through Christ.

It gets more complicated when discussing the specific 'gift' of Apostle:

Jesus' twelve main disciples were the first Apostles (Mark 6:7-13). Judus proved false and had to later be replaced Acts 1:15-26). It is important to note that Matthias was chosen not just to be an apostle, but to be a fellow witness of the Resurrection and the physical life of Christ on earth. (II Peter 1: 12-21) The disciples here were choosing from among the other disciples of Christ to *specifically replace Judas' apostolic ministry* (Acts 1:25), not to set up standards for all future apostles (otherwise Paul would never have qualified). These were the first Apostles of Christ, and they are one of the foundation layers of the early church. (Rev 21:24) 

Paul, instead of Matthias, is often considered the twelfth apostle or at least considered a primary Apostle along with the twelve. Paul did not personally witness the Resurrection or the physical life of Christ, so his ministry would have been different than that of the twelve. He did, however, personally hear the voice of Christ (Acts 9:1-9), and credits his learning of the gospel not to any man but to the revelation of Christ (Gal 1:11-24). In the same way, the gospel for all men is not by earthly religion or human devising, but rather directly from the grace of God revealed in Christ. (II Peter 1:16, II Tim 1:8-11) We receive the gospel and walk in it by faith, not sight or action (Acts 13:26-52, II Cor 5:7). As for personally witnessing Christ, Christ considers it a greater thing to believe without having seen Him (John 20:24-29).

There were other apostles in the Bible besides the twelve/Paul. (Luke 10:1-20, Rom 16:7, Acts 11:19-21) The prerequisite to be an apostle was not that he must have personally learned from Jesus, but that he taught the same gospel as Jesus (II Cor 11:1-15, II Tim 1:6-14)

Apostles are foremost disciples of Christ. They do not have to be direct disciples of Christ, such as learning from Him in person, but they do have to have learned His teaching and in turn spread it. (This is much like the Jewish system of rabbi->student->student becomes rabbi->student, actually, which passed on the teachings/schools of thought of a given rabbi). 

Apostles are those who are sent out into the world to preach the gospel, plant churches, and contribute to the health and leadership of the worldwide church. In modern terms, we would call them missionaries and church planters. They also seem to have the job sometimes of distributing money from the church to the needy (Acts 4:34-35), such as a modern missionary might collect funds to take over to the church in Uganda.

Apostleship is among the spiritual gifts (Eph 4:11-12, I Cor 12:1-11), the spirit is not restricted from giving it out. The evangelist shares the good news where he is, the apostle has a specific mission into the world to preach or lay ground for others.

Prophet: The greek word for prophet is prophétés, it is a combination of pró (before) and phēmí (make clear, asserting one idea over another). Prophecy is what is 'clarified beforehand'.Those with the gift of prophecy are those who reveal the mind of God by speaking beforehand, such as predicting the future or speaking to warn, exhort, or to declare/reveal sin. These prophecies do not "add" to scripture, and if they contradict, prove false, or teach another gospel then they are false prophecies. This gift will not end until we see Christ face to face (I Cor 13:8-13).

More on the spiritual gift of prophecy: http://ebible.com/answers/9372?ori=167400

August 26 2014 7 responses Vote Up Share Report

My passport new Arun Kumar Engineer, Chennai, India
An apostle is someone who has lived with Jesus, saw all the signs & miracles Jesus performed, saw him die on the cross and saw Him in the resurrected form and saw His ascension. This is whom the Bible calls an apostle-Acts 1:21-22.

Another evidence from Luke 6:13. He chose 12 of His disciples to be His apostles. Concluding it, not everyone could become an apostle. With this in mind, we can see that there are no apostles for the Church now, but we have the Bible which was composed by the apostles, which is equivalent to having apostles.

We need to divide the period before completion of Bible and after the completion of Bible. The Church of the 1st century needed prophets simply because they did not have a Bible. So they, through direct revelation through prophets and through the gift of prophecy, exposed the truths of the New Testament. But we, have it in our hands and there is no need of prophecy or prophets.

August 26 2014 1 response Vote Up Share Report

Data Tom Huntford
The question you ask is excellent, and, as the other answers show, has drawn a lot of concern.


So many brothers and sisters argue about questions like this--with opinions based on either Scriptures that do not plainly teach about the actual matter at hand, or else based on their own reasoning. In order to achieve the unity that the Holy Spirit is calling the church to, we must learn to stick to the Scriptures.

So: the question we are asking is:


The answer is:
1. The Bible never makes a statement clearly saying something like, "after the apostolic age, the gift of apostle and prophet will cease"
2. The Bible never makes a statement clearly saying, "The gift of apostle and prophet are only needed until the canon (books which are certainly the Word of God) is complete."
3. The Bible does say, in 1 Cor 13, that tongues, prophecy, and knowledge shall continue until "that which is perfect is come". 
4. The Bible does not say that anyone who is an apostle or a prophet, and speaks under the influence of the Holy Spirit, is adding to the Scriptures.

Why are people so uncomfortable with this issue? (this helps answer your question)

I believe it is partially because the leaders of the Roman Catholic church claim that they, being in the office of Peter, can make statements that are authoritative and binding. In reaction to that, many Christians who take exception to the many rules and doctrines that Catholicism have added to the Scriptures, take the approach of saying that the gift of apostle and prophet ceased after the "apostolic age".

It really comes down to:

1. The fear that, if you say that God could still have apostles and prophets, that we don't have a firm foundation of "the faith once delivered to the saints"--namely, the Scriptures, the 66 books that we call the Bible.
2. The spiritual garbage that often accompanies those who claim to be apostles and prophets. Examples would be the leaders of the "New Apostolic Reformation"; false "charismatic" teachers like Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland; the ever-increasing pile of unbiblical pronouncements by Catholics; the never-ending stream of cult leaders; etc.

As is usually the case in these arguments, both sides are going beyond Scripture.

1. The fact is, that the faith is and was once delivered to the saints. There were prophets like Agabus and the daughters of Philip, whose prophecies are not part of the Scripture. There are writings of the Apostles, such as Pauls letter to the church at Laodicea, which did not make it in as Scripture. So, to say that these gifts continue is NOT to say that the "canon" is not closed.
2. The fact is, that all prophecies are to be judged, 1 Cor 14. And judged against the Word of God. I don't care if the person is a pope or a leader of some new group, or somebody who thinks the Holy Spirit is speaking to them in a home group...it has to be ruthlessly measured against the Scripture.

The gifts continue. But the canon is fixed. All the doctrine and practice of the church is laid down. Let us go forth in the power of the Spirit, being used of the Spirit, speaking as He gives us utterance...AND AT THE SAME TIME departing neither to the right or to the left regarding what has been written, and judging everything by that.

God bless you!

December 09 2015 5 responses Vote Up Share Report

20258098 10155684218734078 7184786764532765946 n Brent Parker
Respectfully, I disagree with those here who say the office of the apostle and prophet were only for the establishment of the church. One thing I can agree with some here who take that stance is that we must let scripture guide our beliefs. 

Here are my reasons for disagreeing with you:

1. Nowhere in scripture does it say these offices will end before the return of Christ. 

2. Paul wrote this epistle to the Ephesians many years after the Church had its beginnings.

The Bible tells us why and for how long the ministry gifts were given to the Church.
For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect [spiritually mature] man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ.

These verses tell us three reasons ministry gifts were given to the Church:
For the perfecting of the saints.
For the work of the ministry.
For the edifying of the Body of Christ.

Actually, the Greek indicates that the meaning is "perfecting of the saints so the saints can do the work of the ministry, resulting in the edification of the Body of Christ."

How long will ministry gifts be in the Church? 

Ephesians 4:13 says, "Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect [spiritually mature] man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ."

Don't let the words "perfecting" and "perfect" in verses 12 and 13 throw you. We will never be perfect or perfected in the flesh. As long as we are in these mortal bodies, we will not reach perfection in the sense that most people think of perfection. Actually, the word "perfect" here means mature or full manhood. The Bible is talking about spiritual maturity.

The Church will always need ministry gifts — those called to the offices of apostle, prophet, evangelist, pastor, and teacher — because as a body of believers, we are always in the process of growing toward the full stature of Christ. 

No scripture refutes that truth. You have to go out of your way to explain away the office of the apostle and the prophet.

March 09 2018 1 response Vote Up Share Report

1355970312 Ron Ray
I'm writing this from my phone so it will be short. The foundation of the church rests upon the writing of the prophets (Old Testament) and the writings of the apostles (New Testament) with Jesus as the cornerstone. The reason that prophets and apostles don't exist anymore is because their purpose was fulfilled. The foundation has been established. There is no need to re-establish it again. 

If one prophecies, that does not make one a prophet. It makes that person someone who has the spiritual gift of prophecy. If someone is an apostolic elder of the church, it doesn't make them an apostle. They have authoritative oversight of the church in the same way apostles oversaw the church in the beginning of the church age. 

Now the foundation has been laid, the preachers and teachers build upon it to establish God's houses.

December 09 2015 2 responses Vote Up Share Report

Mini Scott Brown
Speculation and current standards in one's own denomination do not define anything, nor do the opinions of men. Let's let scripture speak for itself and be no more and no less than what it actually does say. I hear people say miracles have passed away too. Well, you're too late, I've seen too many. They say healing passed away, again, sorry, I have been healed from much, as have others I know. Lemons have not passed away just because there are none in your house. Blessings.

December 29 2017 0 responses Vote Up Share Report

Ephesians 4:11-12:
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

If you mean are we in a general sense apostles meaning "sent", then all believers qualify.

If one is calling himself an apostle today like the apostle Paul or the twelve, then there are no more of those types of apostles.

Yes, some were apostles. And we still learn from those apostles that wrote the many church epistles like Paul, Peter, James, John. So, we have their words and teachings to learn the doctrine of the apostles given by Christ. 

But, there are no modern day people that qualify in the way they did.

Revelation 2:2:
“I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:”

In the letters to the seven churches, only Ephesus tested if they were apostles, and the Lord Jesus Christ commends them for this. The other churches didn't test it. While these were 7 actual churches at the time of Paul, these also explain things to come in the ages of the church.

The church age of Ephesus ended after John penned Revelation. Yes, apostles do not exist today. We can test this with the qualifications given in Acts 1 as: present at John's baptism, appointed by Jesus, and witnessing the resurrected Christ.

Since we don't have individuals over 2000 years old walking around, I think that is clear.

We are still learning from the "appointed apostles" as stated above in their writings in the scripture. 

The only church admonished for testing was Ephesus, (again looking at these as time periods right now, and yes they were actual churches at the time) and the other churches weren't scolded for not testing for apostles, because after the last apostle died (John) in about 100 AD, there was no need.

The above is a great test, but a second test would be to raise up the dead as Paul did in Acts 20 after Eutychus fell asleep in the rafters when Paul was preaching. If the person claiming apostleship can't do it, it would be much like the false prophets in the old testament. He isn't someone to fear.

So many use the transitional book of Acts for church doctrine, and that is why they fall into poor teaching of modern apostles (but don't check if it is biblical), modern day prophets or speaking in tongues (1 Corinthians 13:8: “Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.”).

Such things as apostles, tongues and prophecies ceased after the cannon of scripture (that which is perfect had come verses 9 & 10). Then those that want those things justify them with chapter 14, but that explains how to use them until that time; but they of course ignore the fact that women are to remain silent in chapter 14, and usually have many women teaching or speaking in tongues. 

So in short, no apostles, or test them to see if they can raise the dead. Blessings to all who study the word to see if these things are true as the Bereans did.

December 11 2022 0 responses Vote Up Share Report

Mini Kenneth Heck
The authority and office of apostles and prophets are one thing; the spiritual gifts of apostleship and prophecy are another thing.

Prophetic authority meant that the word of God received by the prophets was as authoritative as if it were coming directly from Christ or the Father, not just from the Holy Spirit and subject to modification.

Interpreting literally, the original apostles had full authority in their office to forgive sins and bind and loosen, in addition to prophetic authority:

John 20:23."Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

Matthew 18:18 "Verily I say unto you, What soever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

We don't seem to see church leaders today claiming to be able to forgive sins, or to be able to bind or loosen penalties for sin or for contradicting apostolic authority. 

One exception may be the Catholic and Orthodox denominations which claim to have inherited full apostolic authority from the original apostles.

Without the apostleship gift, (from the Holy Spirit) it is doubtful any church could be established and survive. It is a distinctive apostolic function. 

Without the prophetic gift from the Holy Spirit, only a handful of believers would be able to endure the oppression and persecution from determined demonic opposition. The prophet is shown the way out of difficulties and into the truth (in the absence of an apostle).

December 09 2015 0 responses Vote Up Share Report

Bless america Luis Aragon
My simple answer is YES, the ministries of God by the Holy Spirit to lay a foundation which is Christ in us... are very much alive. Not popular, but very much alive. Nobody wants to surrender their life to God, thus the modern day church or religion and not Christ. Although we hear teachings about Christ they never really bring it home to where the Christian is supposed to be living a LIFE IN CHRIST... Literally... The life in Christ is the foundation we (apostles) preach... So yes we do exist... And I will end on this note: As stated earlier 1 Cor. 12 /Eph. 4 "...and the whole word of God..." If God says it I believe it. To those unbelievers for whatever reasons they may have, I'm sure someday they will give account if not sooner... Because honestly, they are not only robbing themselves but others from the rich spiritual blessing of God... JESUS IS LORD! Let God be true and every man a liar... 

July 31 2018 0 responses Vote Up Share Report

Mini Apostle Brown
There’s so much to be said here- and much has already been said. What I have yet to read on this thread however, is one scripture where God says that He has done away with prophets and apostles. What I’ve seen so far is men saying that God has done away with prophets and apostles. It’s funny because of all the ascension gifts, these are the only two ever in question. Would God somehow just forget to tell us in scripture that He has decided to do away with 2 of the 3 gifts that He gave to the church? Of course not. 

Folks want to sound so theologically deep with paragraph after paragraph about what they think. Please show us the scriptures where God says that He decided to take His gifts back from the church. I’ll wait.

December 06 2020 2 responses Vote Up Share Report

Mini Dia Terr
All I can say is that when we are filled with the Holy Spirit, children of God will not have to debate or say right or wrong about whether or not Apostles and Prophets exist today or not. It's like saying Jesus only left the Holy Spirit for those in ancient times. 

How would we grow? My prayer is that instead of debating or taking a stance, seek God in prayer. Ask the Holy Spirit to lead and guide you; He will and into all truth. We either believe the word of God, walk and live by faith, or just assume because most seminary and/or theology professors are or were pastors, with no apostles or prophets. That is why some may say those two titles/words no longer exist. 

How many pastors, churches do we have today? Would anyone dare say the bible only left pastors, teachers, and evangelists, or did those go away to because the foundation was already laid? How do or can Christians only grow with three gifts when five were/are listed? That's like sayings sexism, racism, and healing have gone away, along with the devil because Jesus took the keys from him. I ask that we be led and not argue over the word of God. 

Either we believe in all of the bible from over 4000 or 5000K years ago, or we don't believe at all and there is no purpose to be saved. I thank God that I trust the whole word of God, know that He is the creator, and has given us all a purpose in which to live on this earth. We point people back to Christ. Tomorrow will take care of itself, today is what we focus on.

January 25 2023 0 responses Vote Up Share Report

Mini Ryan Mencil
In Acts 3:21, Peter is speaking about how a restoration or restitution of all things will come to earth before the second coming. Quoting verse 21 (speaking about Jesus), "Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began...."

This is saying before the second coming, Christ's church will be brought back. Restored. Not reformed or an interpretation like you see with so many different denominations, but actually restored as it once was. As established with Apostles and Prophets (Christ himself being the chief cornerstone).

That would entail that Apostles and Prophets will be called again just as they were.

April 16 2020 0 responses Vote Up Share Report

Profile pic Mark Vestal Proud of nothing of myself. Freed by Christ who did it all!
There are "ministers of reconciliation" today (2 Cor 5:18), but I say there are no prophets, when defined as 'those given knowledge of future events directly by God', or apostles to Israel by Jesus Christ on earth, as defined by Peter in Acts 1:21-22, or by the apostle Paul to us, who was given his office directly by Jesus Christ ascended in glory from heaven (Gal 2:8). 

Biblical prophets were used as mediators between God and man as the Word of God was not yet perfect (completed) during those days (1 Cor 13:10).

Prophets and apostles had the ability to perform miracles to prove who they were (1 Cor 1:22), but we today are to walk by faith and not by sight (2 Cor 5:7). If someone (or something) is showing you a miracle to prove to you that they are a prophet or apostle of God, I recommend leaving the presence of that being as quickly as possible. They are most likely serving the god of this world (2 Cor 4:4), no different than Barjesus (Acts 13:6). Folks, "god" is spelled with a lower case (g) in 2 Cor 4:4 for a reason.

If you are looking for signs from God to guide you in your life, I would like to remind you that we are living during God's "dispensation of Grace" (Eph 3:2), where God's grace is sufficient (2 Cor 12:9).

What if 'so and so' walked up to you and stated that the Lord told them to tell you 'thus and such'? Will you ponder whether this information is truly from God, or that the messenger was chosen directly by God to come to you? No! (Gal 3:1).

You can however be certain that what you find in God's perfect Word is THE truth. Use the true Word of God to guide you in your life, but also be sure to "rightly divide" God's Word as you do (2 Tim 2:15) so you will not be confused (1 Cor 14:33). Things that happened to and for Israel in the Bible will most likely not apply to us today. We are not under God's covenant program with Israel (old or new). We are under God's grace program (Eph 3:2) until God establishes His new covenant with Israel upon his second earthly coming and millennial reign (Heb 8:8-10).

Read and learn so that you may discern truth from fiction. Do not trust man or take my word for it, as it was man that got us in the position we are currently in to begin with (Rom 5:122). If you want God to speak to you today, you can hear Him while reading His written Word to us.

June 21 2023 0 responses Vote Up Share Report

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