I want to understand if there is a conflict with someone claiming to believe in Jesus as the Son of God, and claiming to be a Christian, but also not believing that the Bible is God's word because it's been corrupted by man.
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Well the only unpardonable sin is not believing in Jesus. So I would tread carefully in declaring a person a Christian or not based upon a belief they hold or do not hold. I do personally think it would be very difficult to have a stable faith if one did not accept Scripture as both inspired and correctly preserved. The Truth of Scripture is foundational to all of our beliefs and doctrines as Christians. I know that I am a sinner in need of forgiveness because Christ revealed this to me through Scripture. I know that Jesus, being God, came to earth and paid the penalty for my sins, died on the cross, conquered death and was resurrected thus paving a way for me to find forgiveness because Scripture teaches it! If I did not hold to Scripture as being both inspired and preserved correctly, I don't know how I could have a stable faith. If I couldn't trust that Scripture was True, how could I trust any of my beliefs about Christ? But again, if someone did believe that they were a sinner, asked Christ for forgiveness, and did have a personal relationship with Christ, then I can't imagine that having personal issues with the validity of Scripture would somehow negate the redemptive work of Christ on their hearts.
All of us as Christians are constantly growing in both faith and knowledge. It could be possible to believe in Jesus and yet question a certain book or verse of the Bible. There are "baby Christians" who may just need information, and we need to be sensitive to them. Someone who questions the WHOLE Bible or parts that contain major doctrines…well, you wonder exactly where their doctrines came from. There are many people today who consider themselves Christians and yet don’t believe in the Bible as the literal Word of God. Some of these are from liberal denominations. I went to a Liberal Protestant college, and there were some professors (not all) who taught “higher criticism" which made students doubt the Bible. (C.S. Lewis says that some of these scholars really don't want the Bible to be literally true.) These people tended to see Christianity as a form of social work, and the main goal of Christianity as social justice and self-help. While we can't judge a person's salvation, many of these people have never had a personal conversion experience. Another group who may doubt the Bible are those who have been influenced by cults, magazine articles, or sensational TV programs about “lost books." These people often don't know much about Biblical history, or historical research in general, so they're an easy target. Honestly, I think the latter is easier to deal with. Here’s what you can do: Ask “WHEN” the Bible (specifically the New Testament) was supposedly corrupted? Many people don’t know that there are thousands of very early copies of the Bible, books of the Bible, and isolated verses. These extant copies date back into the early 2nd century and can be dated by either secular or Biblical scholars by the way the letters are formed as well as by the materials on which they’re written. These early manuscripts prove that there was no huge time span between Jesus’ and the Apostles’ lives and the writing of the New Testament books. We generally consider that Jesus was crucified in the A.D. 30s, which was early in the 1st century. The Gospel of John was probably written in the A.D. 90s. All during this time there were people still alive who remembered Jesus, his teachings, and the teachings of the Apostles. Any major corruption in doctrine would have been recognized. We know that our “Bible” (at least the Greek texts from which our English Bibles are translated) is basically the same as the earliest texts simply because we can go back and READ the earliest texts (if you read Koine Greek very well.) On this page http://scriptureonline.org/defense/origin/text/christian.php are images of some early manuscript fragments. To find further prove that the verses we read today are substantially the same as they were in the 2nd century, you can read some of the ancient letters by the earliest Church Fathers http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01.html (***Remember though, these letters by early Christians at CCEL are NOT SCRIPTURE. They’re just letters in which the writer quotes Bible verses***) Also of interest may be the the Codex Sinaiticus, which is a 4th century version of the Bible in early book format, as opposed to being a scroll. This early Bible is available online, http://www.codex-sinaiticus.net/en/codex/. It’s a little “newer” than the most ancient manuscripts, but you can actually see the pages and, if you read Koine Greek really well, you can read it. (Even if you don’t read Koine well, you can sometimes pick out a word or two.) These manuscripts are hard evidence of what the N.T. has said since the 1st Century. If a person is determined to believe that the Bible was corrupted, nothing will convince him otherwise, other than the direct action of the Holy Spirit. What we can do is 1) pray and 2) try to present information that will remove any intellectual issues or misinformation that would keep a person from believing in the Bible.
Mat 7:24 "Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. Mat 7:26 And everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. Mar 8:38 For whoever is ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, of him will the Son of Man also be ashamed when he comes in the glory of his Father with the holy angels." Luk 9:26 For whoever is ashamed of me and of my words, of him will the Son of Man be ashamed when he comes in his glory and the glory of the Father and of the holy angels. Joh 5:45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father. There is one who accuses you: Moses, on whom you have set your hope.Joh 5:46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me.Joh 5:47 But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words?" Joh 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. Joh 12:48 The one who rejects me and does not receive my words has a judge; the word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day. Joh 14:23 Jesus answered him, "If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.Joh 14:24 Whoever does not love me does not keep my words. And the word that you hear is not mine but the Father's who sent me. Joh 17:18 As you sent me into the world, so I have sent them into the world.Joh 17:19 And for their sake I consecrate myself, that they also may be sanctified in truth.Joh 17:20 "I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, Joh 8:31 So Jesus said to the Jews who had believed him, "If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples,Joh 8:32 and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." 2Jn 1:9 Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. I put all of these verses in here to show that even a cursory survey of scripture shows plain scriptures that are clear in their meaning. And I think by looking at these, it is perfectly safe and actually a part of what we should be doing to tell people "NO", you can't be saved and not believe in scripture. I think we need to be honest about this also, in our society it's very habitual to bend things to what we think in order to justify what we want. A Christian who says they don't believe what the bible says has bigger problems than their claims about "translations". Myself, I would handle the conversation by removing their leverage of disputes about translations. Unless they are an expert in Greek, they really don't know much about it anyways. They are using the statement as a means of avoiding something. That's what I would stay focused on. There is a reason they don't want to read or accept certain parts of the bible. I have found it very common it usually is the part that identifies their sin in their life. Just something to think about.
2 Timothy 3:16- all scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. GOD is not the author of confusion!
Can a person be a Christian if they do not believe the bible is true? Jesus would sometimes answer a question with a question. Here is a question in response to the question under consideration: can a person be a Christian and not please God? Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him (God), for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. (NKJV) Question: what is the source of faith? Answer: hearing the Word of God. Romans 10:17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. (NKJV) The Bible is the Word of God we have today. Another question: can a person be a Christian without Jesus being their Lord? Jesus said: Luke 6: 46 “But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say?” (NKJV) Question: what is the source of Jesus’ sayings/teachings? Answer: the Bible. The Bible is God’s will communicated to humanity today. The Bible is God’s “Owners Manual” for His creation. He made us and He knows what is best for us. He desires that we live to glorify Him. 1 Corinthians 6:19 Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? 20 For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God’s. (NKJV) 1 Corinthians 10:31 Therefore, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God. (NKJV)
Unfortunately this is a common belief of some groups that claim to be Christian, especially Mormon groups. They try to argue that the Bible translactions are not accurate and were corrupted which is why they believe in the Book of Mormon instead. The problem with this is that the Bible is the most authentic work of antiquity in existance so not believing in it means you also can't believe in books like those by Homer, Shakespeare, etc... as they are all less autheticated then the Bible. The other reason someone might say this is that they like the idea of having a saviour and going to heaven but they don't want to have to cut sin from their life, so they say things like I believe in Jesus but not the Bible or I'm spirtual, etc... However in Mathew 7:21-23 it says “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’ The Bible is how we know the law and do the will of God so you can't simply say you believe in Jesus. We are commanded over and over again by Jesus that we must Love God which means to Obey God. We won't be perfect at it and mess up at times which is why we needed Jesus to die for our sins. As someone else pointed out there are indeed some translactions that aren't the best though so in that regard your friend or anyone for that matter should do their due diligence and understand the translations they are reading. One thing I love about bible apps is that I can see the same verse from multiple translations. It's also very important to understand context so Study Bibles can be very helpful to explain the historical aspects that affect the scripture and also sometimes you need to look at the original Greek or Hebrew as all of the translations will use a word that doesn't really accurately convey the message.
I think this is a very good question. I wonder how many people have gone down the "Roman Road" believing they are saved because they believe Jesus is the Son of God. I worry that people say "yes Jesus is Lord", and that satisfies "confess with your mouth"; and then they really believe because they don't believe in all those other religions, I mean Jesus really really really did exist), that that satisfies "believing from the heart". Is that all it means? No, it cannot be like that. If you seek the truth, meaning to read all translations seeking the meaning and then because you find the truth, you repent (change your way of living). Think about this, does Satan and his demons believe Jesus is the Son of God? James 2:19 Romans 10:10 says that with our heart we are justified. So belief with the heart is more than just an acknowledgment. We must study the scripture. For Romans 10:14 asks how can you believe if you have not heard the Word of God. How can we hear the word? By listening to and reading the scripture.
This prophet writes by permission from the Holy Spirit. Where is the love? I am afraid many of our brothers and sisters are acting like Saducees and Pharisees. We are busy condemning those that interpret and live the word differently than we do. Who are we to judge? Locking people into the Law and not the Love. Jesus said the only sin unpardonable is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, because for anyone to do this he has not the Spirit in him. Yet Jesus was about Love and Forgiving not condemnation. I challenge my brothers and sisters to give me one instance where Jesus did not pardon sin. Jesus healed many and all that came to him and he never once asked anyone if they believed. He even said believe not on me but my works. I believe Paul says that we should not get into silly confrontations on different interpretations. For the Christian there are only two types of people: ones who are saved, and ones who need to be saved. We must let our light so shine that man will see God's goodness and God can get his glory. No one will see the light if we don't show it. The Bible is not the only way one can receive Jesus. The Bible is the written history and promises of God. Blended with the Holy Spirit it is a powerful tool for reaching the lost and keeping the fold. One does not always have to read it from cover to cover to be saved. All it takes to be saved is to believe. Remember the great commandment, Love the lord YOUR God with all thy heart, mind, and strength and thy neighbor as thyself. The Christian without love is no Christian at all.
...This is an incredibly interesting question because it illustrates one aspect of being a Christian in name only. Or rather, one rationalization in the minds of perhaps some who dance around the make believe stage of being "spiritual," without having anything concrete and accurate about which to ground one's supposed belief. Astonishingly, some Israelites from scripture might well be thought of similarly--claiming to be of God's people while engaging in idolatry--quite in spite of God's warnings. An example is the Golden Calf While Moses was on Mount Sinai receiving instructions for how to worship Yahweh (Exodus 32:1-6). Psalms 14:1 tells us, "Only fools say in their hearts, "There is no God." They are corrupt, and their actions are evil; not one of them does good!" I would also add, only a fool would think that God would allow his revealed word to be corrupted by man. That would indicate that God is deeply flawed. Absolutely preposterous... Rationalization has long been a mind trick that Satan sells to those who simply do not wish to obey God, but rather wallow in sin. To be a "Christian" without believing in God's revealed Word? Impossible!
This question has been pretty well ansewered by a lot of people who based on their writtings are a lot smarter than me. However let me add a couple of thoughts. First, if you don't believe in the bible then none of my contributions or those of many of the others have any credibility because we are using scripture to validate scripture and if you do not believe in the bible nothing quoted from scripture can be counted on as truh. What does it mean to be a Christian? A simple difination is that a Christian is a believes in and is a follower of Christ and His teachings. In John 1:1 ff John writes, "in the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the Word was God." He was with God in the Beginning." Then a little further down in John 1 in verse 14 it goes on to say " The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.".......(NIV) What this says to me is that if you believe in Jesus you have to believe in The Word, so it is hard for me to see how a person can believe in Jesus if they don't believe in His Word when they are one and the same according to scripture. Then if we look at 2Timithy 3:16 which tells us that all scripture is God-breathed and is useful for.......(NIV) So while God is a God of Grace, and all things are possible through Him. I believe that you cannot believe in Jesus but not His Word and be a Christian. I also beleive in all of scripture and do not think there is part of it I can choose to agree with (believe) and part that I don't agree with (unbeliefe). There is much I don't understand and part that I'm not clear on just how I am to live out in this world, but for me it all true and I trust that the Holy Spirit will reveal and empower me to figure it out as I stay connected to His Holy Word. Because we have the orginal transcripts and the orginal transcripts agree with one another I believe that our bible today is in agreement with the orginal writtings. One of the proofs for me is when you look at the many translations of the bible, KJV, RSV, NIV and on and on we see differant scholars, at differant times coming up with the same results. There may be some changes in specific words used but the idea that Scripture has been corrupted by man over time is a false premise, because we still have orginial manuscripts on which to base our biblical translations. One word of caution, we are dealing with Man and sometimes man wants Gods word to say something that it does not say and infuse their own word or words to make Gods word say what they want it to say. So we do due diligence, and make sure that the bible translation we are using is not the exception but is in consert with the orginal manuscripts.
Officially, this whole question should be removed from eBible.com because it violates the statements of faith that all questions/answers must abide to. (http://ebible.com/statement_of_faith) Therefore, to abide as best as possible to the statement of faith, my answer must be as follows. Hebrews 10:16 says "This is the new covenant I will make with my people on that day, says the LORD: I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds." Additionally, 1 John 4:1 says "Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world." Ironic as it is to use Bible verses to answer a question like this, consider how many different and even conflicting versions of the Bible there are. Compare that to the statement of faith on eBible (which does match most Christian denominations); "We believe the Bible, in its entirety, to be the inspired Word of God and the only infallible rule of faith and conduct" (see http://www.notjustanotherbook.com/biblecomparison.htm ) So, why not ask WHICH version of the Bible to place your faith in? You certainly cannot place your faith in all of them, considering that some even bring the gender of God into question. So if you place your faith in only ONE version, are you not doing the very same thing that the person who doubts all translations? You are doubting not the very original version, but the translations of the original. That's an important difference. Perhaps you should ask your friend whether they mean the translations of the Bible or the original scripts. Perhaps that's something you should think about, yourself.
I have had this very conversation with my mother who believes in God, but doesn't feel the bible is the inspired word of God. Yes, current translations lose a lot in translation, which may seem to have contradictions. This is why one must carefully choose a translation that is as close to the original Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic. There are words in those languages that the English language doesn't have a word for. I tried to get my mother to study with several different versions, that way she could see the differences in each bible and make a validated opinion. If someone truly humbles themselves and studies the Word, with openness of heart, they're eyes will be opened to the truth.
It is a sad fact that there are many leading evangelical Christian pastors and international conference speakers who do do believe the Bible to be true in its entirety. The Bible clearly states that God created the universe in six days (Exodus 20:11). Jesus, the infallible Son of God, taught this (Mark 10:6). The Bible also tells us that God destroyed the world as it was by a universal flood, saving only Noah and his family out of the human race (Genesis 6-8). Jesus believed this and His apostles based doctrine upon it (Matthew 24:37-39; 1 Peter 3:20; 2 Peter 2:4). So it is sad that well-known evangelicals can teach that, for example, Adam was a Neolithic farmer, having had parents and siblings, or that Noah's flood was a local, not worldwide, event. They base their views on what secular geologists and other members of the scientific community propagate: that the world evolved over many millions of years, having begun from a 'singularity' which spontaneously exploded in what they call the Big Bang. Life then mysteriously began (there is not a shred of evidence for abiogensis, the spontaneous generation of life - as Pasteur demonstrated by experiment in 1851) and 'developed' (evolved) by a process of reproduction and death over more millions of years. The fossil remains of many of these plants and animals form large areas of the rocks we see today, even in the highest mountain ranges are meant to be proof of this. Having swallowed the lie of secular science these Bible scholars and teachers would have us believe that the world could not possibly have begun just a few thousand years ago nor that Noah's Flood took place before Mount Everest rose from the depths of the ocean. They thus deny the clear teaching of the Bible. They also undermine a foundational doctrine of salvation: that death is the consequence of human sin, not a natural aspect of evolutionary development, and that the universe groans because of this (Romans 5:12-21; 8:20-21). In doing this they have gone along with what the 19th century atheist geologist Charles Lyell wanted to achieve - to 'rid the Bible of Moses' - and so cast doubt on the rest of scripture. So, while it is indeed possible to be an acclaimed Christian and at the same time doubt parts of God's Word, we ought to be aware of the scientific/historical facts and the doctrinal implications and investigate for ourselves who these teachers of error are. The sad consequences of such false teaching is that many young people, brought up on a diet of 'Theistic Evolution' and scriptural compromise, abandon the church once they go unprepared into the secular world of higher education. It is noticeable that it is the churches that teach Theistic Evolution that are losing membership most rapidly. It is from among these churches that further heresies and immoral practices are not only not dealt with but sometimes even approved of.
No. The Bible is the History of the Christian Religion and also whom God is through His Son, Jesus Christ, for if You know the Son, you will know the nature of His Father, God. Jesus is the Truth, the Life and the Way, if you do not know Jesus through the Bible, then you don't know the true God of the Universe. The True God whom was the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob (whom 12 sons were the tribes of Israel). We are fortunate that we have a blue print to Heaven written in the Bible and it all points to our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is one with the Father and the Holy Spirit which form the True God whom created Heaven and Earth and all that has ever been created and the One in which we all will be judged too in the end times, for He is the only one worthy to judge.
In a Bible study class a couple of years ago, our leader stated that one could not be a Christian if he or she believed in evolution. But I do not recall Jesus ever discussing anything at all about science. Instead, he said, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the father except through me.” Genesis chapter 1 discusses creation. Chapter 2 also discusses creation—in a completely different order. We could argue that the Bible is invalid because it contradicts itself—or we could argue that the Bible is not a science book. Rather, it is a collection of books and letters written to a people who needed to know who created them. This collection required well over a thousand years for hundreds of people to put it together—and then only after those people had invented a written language--which they did not have until at least three hundred years after Moses. God provided us the Bible. But it is our personal responsibility to try to understand it. I do not believe that he objects if we ask questions about it.
Yes it is possible for a person be a Christian if they do not believe that the bible is true. The Bible is clear that you become a Christian through faith in Jesus Christ. It does not say you become a christian by faith that the Bible is true. Of course it is quite hard to know enough about Jesus to come to faith in him, without a knowledge of the Bible. But it is possible and that is sufficient to answer the question. Our knowledge may be incomplete or imperfect, our understanding of the Bible may be partial and flawed, but at the end of the day it is not our faith in the Bible that makes us Christians, it's our faith in Jesus. Regards Philip
Question: If it is not the Jesus of the Bible that we are worshiping, then is it the CHRISTIAN Christ? There are many "christs": Matthew 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. If God has truly only revealed himself through the Bible, then it is only the Christ of the bible that is true. Without the bible as your ONLY source of doctrine, knowledge and understanding, how can we truly know the true Christ? If we are not worshiping the Christ of the bible, than which "christ" are you following? The Buddhists have a "christ", Muslims have a "christ", the Hindu religion has a "christ", Unification has a "christ", Jehovah Witnesses have a "christ", the Mormons have a "christ", the Jews have a "christ", New Age has a "christ", and yes, there are some Christians that have an un-biblical view of Christ. It is only through the Bible that we know and can have faith that the Holy Spirit fills us at the moment of our conversion. Without this biblical knowledge, there can not be true faith because it is only in hearing the word of God does true faith come: Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. It is only through belief in the Christ of the bible and the bible as the only true word of God, that we receive the Holy Spirit, because it is only through His discernment that we can understand His word, know God, and be empowered to live a holy life for God, bear fruit to God, and have ministerial gifts. It is only through the bible that God reveals His true nature. Without true biblical knowledge and faith, you might follow any religion or person who says they are christ or believe in Christ. Many religions and cults, such as Unificationists, i.e Moonies, Mormons and Jehovah Witness all claim to follow "christ", but it is not a BIBLICAL Christ. I pray that this helps.
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