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S. Michael Houdmann
Supporter
First, the term Christian must be defined. A "Christian" is not a person who has said a prayer or walked down an aisle or been raised in a Christian family. While each of these things can be a part...
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Glenn Harrell
Supporter
Very few questions bring out more passion in believers than this one question that Michael has so beautifully and succinctly summarized . My son is now 18 years of age--a senior in high school, very attractive, talented and kind. (just like his dad) He didn't ask to be born--this was an idea of God, his mother and me. He is progressively becoming more like his parents--even though he is not fully aware of or willing for this transformation. He did, however, ask to be born spiritually when he prayed to receive Christ into his heart. If you ask him today he will tell you that he was born twice and each time he had only to be on the receiving end. To be born physically, he waited 9 months. To be born spiritually he repented of his unbelief and acknowledged his need to be forgiven as a sinner. (John 3:6-8) My love for him is pretty shallow by comparison to God's love for him and I promise you this very thing; There is absolutely nothing my son could do to make me stop loving him and accepting him as my own. It is not possible for me to love him more or less and my love for him has nothing to do with how many good or bad deeds he does, or for that matter, how much he loves me in return. Any human father who doesn't have at least this much poor love needs to get professional help. (Matthew 7:11) Like any father son relationship, we have our moments of challenge: --authority --curfew --work ethic --eat s l o w l y For all I know he may have thought about running away at some point in his young life. (children think and do some pretty dumb stuff) R e m e m b e r ? Even if a child says, "I don't love you any more", and runs away from home--this does not change their last name. It reveals a lack of maturity and wisdom. It reveals, perhaps, a lack of maturity and wisdom on the parent as well. Either way, he cannot re-enter his mothers womb and thus escape those monster parents. His last name will not change because of a lapse in judgement or childish whim. He cannot be un-born--neither physically nor spiritually. If he didn't "earn" or "deserve" to be born, there is nothing he can do to be un-born. Unless, that is, he has a very shallow and small father! Salvation has this past (the moment of conversion), present and future ability and power by virtue of birthright, not works of man. ---If your God is so small that he only loves you when you earn or work for His love--You have a different God than I. --- If your God is threatened by your sinfulness as his child and withholds his love and correction, your God is not the same as mine. (Hebrews 12:7-12) ---If your God is anything less than saddened and grieved when you "runaway from home"; if he does not seek you out-- he is not the one in scripture. (Luke 15:1-7) ---If you have a god who will only keep you if you behave yourself, then trade him in for the real thing. (I Peter 1:5) ---So you have a god who threatens you with abandonment when you disobey? Then run! Run away from this tyrant and to the love of God (John 14:15-18) According to the scripture, "If we can be acceptable to God by obeying the law, it was useless for Christ to die." (Galatians 2:21) Anyone who wants to get into the work of determining who really is and who really is not born again based upon their actions, I ask you to do two things: 1- Remember that period or those periods in your own personal life of struggle--when you didn't or don't "measure-up" to your profession. (those infected with legalism struggle with such a mirror) 2-Ask God to promote you to a different pay scale quite a few notches above "fruit inspector" and go at it--but be sure to wear your homemade badge of authority. Also, get ready to be a lonely man or woman because you will be the only one out there. To all of us who have had run ins with the fruit inspector--take courage, "You died with Christ. (past tense) Now the forces of the universe (present tense) don't have any power over you...so why be bothered with the rules that humans have made up? (future tense) (Colossians 2:20-23 "I pray that God will make you ready to obey him and that you will always be eager to do right. May Jesus help you to do what pleases God." (Hebrews 13:21) Herein lies our motivation and incentive, the help of Jesus--not the letter of the law. Relax--In spite of those who see it their job to monitor and run your life, God knows how to love, keep and preserve his own. Get busy-- and get to work, not because you are anxiously trying to gain salvation or deathly afraid of loosing it, but because the joy of obedience and sharing in the purpose of God for your life is greater than any motivation of fear and guilt. (Philippians 2:12-13)
John-Luke Muresan
Supporter
Okay, so depending on your faith tradition your answer will vary. However, if we narrow it down there are two major ideologies, what I will refer to as the "Calvinistic" viewpoint and the "Liberal" viewpoint, by liberal I'm referring to a belief in a morally significant freedom. In my mind, the answer to this question is typically given ideologically rather than on a biblical basis. The reason I say this is because the diversity of the text lends to an unclear answer and to presume a clear answer is a claim that I think cannot be adequately backed up. We find in Ephesians 3:3-6 that we have been chosen by God to be in His book of life from before the foundation of the world. We find in John 10:28 "who can snatch them from my hand", what a promise of God's love! We also find that the basis for our salvation is not our love of God but His love of us: 1 John 4:19. There are other verses which essentially say the same thing and provide a massive amount of evidence in favor of "Perseverance of the Saints" or the belief that salvation is independent of man and cannot be earned or lost by us. THIS BELIEF NEVER IMPLIES THAT THERE IS NO EFFORT ON THE PART OF THE CHRISTIAN! It merely asserts the mystery of God's divine foreknowledge and impeccability. However we find in John's gospel then when Jesus is talking about how we are saved "by partaking in the bread" so to speak, the people ask him this: “What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?” Jesus responds: “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” John 6:28-29. If mankind had nothing to do with salvation then why does Christ respond in this manner? Further, it is claimed that we are written in His book and we cannot be taken out, then why is it said: "He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the Book of Life, and I will confess my name before my Father and before His angels" Revelation 3:5. It is implied that a name can be erased, namely if such a person does not overcome! In other words, overcoming is a requirement to keeping your name in the book of life! More than that, it almost appears that once salvation is lost it cannot be gained again! 4 For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame. Hebrews 6:4-6 There is no clear cut answer, if will is nothing then why does the Bible speak as if will and personal accountability is everything James 2:14-26... Works, will, predestination it all fits together in an intricate puzzle. Can a Christian lose salvation is akin to asking if God always gets what He wants and the answer is no. 2 Peter 3:9, GOD DOES NOT WANT ANYONE TO PERISH AND GO TO HELL! But people do! They do! So no, God doesn't always get what God wants and if Salvation was up to God alone then EVERYONE would be saved! At least that's what scripture tells us the heart of God is. I believe in moral and significant freedom, I believe salvation can be lost and gained by our will, but God is never responsible for the loss... we alone are, so no one can snatch us from His hand, but you can hop out on your own. There's my many cents.
Jim New
Supporter
I would suggest to you that the Bible does NOT teach eternal salvation, although it sure would be nice if it did. The WHOLE Bible warns Christians that they can "fall from grace" (Gal. 5:1-5), be "cut off" from salvation (Rom. 11:18-22), have their names removed from the Lamb's Book of Life (Rev. 22:19), by committing certain sins and not repenting of them (cf. Eph. 5: 3-5; 1Cor. 6:9; Gal. 5:19, Rev. 21:6-8). In a chilling reminder of the possibility of losing salvation by separating oneself from Christ, Paul says, "I drive my body and train it, for fear that, after having preached to others, I myself should become disqualified." (1 Cor. 9:27). Here are a couple of additional passages that pretty much spell out the fact that one can lose one's salvation: Matthew 10:22 2 Peter 2:20-22(lose your salvation then come back) 1 Cor. 15:1-2 Colossians 1:22-23 Hebrews 3:6, 14 (if) Rev. 2:10, 25-36, 3:1-5 Salvation is not a free ride to do as you please. Jesus said that "only a FEW will make it" Many Christians in esp in America have been deceived just as God said would happen. WE are the "luke warm" Church of today! Lets stop sending the message of OSAS and follow God's Holy Word! We all will be judged accordingly! Below are 16 pages just from the NT that prove that a Believer can lose his salvation. Remember, God gave us all the ability to "make choices" throughout our life time. Satan is the great deceiver and can fool you and lead you astray. Salvation is a life long process not a one time decision. You can be disqualified just as Paul says above. genuine Biblical faith expresses itself in action, it does not, it cannot, exist only in a verbal expression; the absence of this practical expression indicates the absence of true faith. I. Matthew through Acts MATTHEW Matthew 5:20-22 – One who hates, speaks evil to fellow believers (brother), can get separated from God and sent to hell. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 21 "You have heard that it was said to the men of old, 'You shall not kill; and whoever kills shall be liable to judgment.' 22 But I say to you that every one who is angry with his brother shall be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother shall be liable to the council, and whoever says, 'You fool!' shall be liable to the hell of fire. Matthew 5:29-30 – Talking metaphorically Jesus says if a thing causes you to sin, it is better off to cut off body parts than suffer going to hell. 29 If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and throw it away; it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell . 30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away; it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell . Matthew 6:13-15 – If we are unforgiving we will lose God’s forgiveness. 13 And lead us not into temptation, But deliver us from evil. 14 For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father also will forgive you; 15 but if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. Matthew 10:28 – We must have the fear of God, who can send us to hell over disobedience. 28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell. Matthew 12:32 – A sin of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven by God. 32 And whoever says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come. Matthew 13:20-21 – One can believe for a while, but then fall away from God (see Luke 8:13), he is speaking here of believers. 20 As for what was sown on rocky ground, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures for a while, and when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately he falls away. Matthew 18:8-9 – Dire consequences of believers committing sin shown by Jesus again. 8 And if your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away; it is better for you to enter life maimed or lame than with two hands or two feet to be thrown into the eternal fire. 9 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and throw it away; it is better for you to enter life with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into the hell of fire. Matthew 18:28-35 – Unforgiveness for others leads to unforgiveness from God. 28 But that same servant, as he went out, came upon one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii; and seizing him by the throat he said, 'Pay what you owe.' 29 So his fellow servant fell down and besought him, 'Have patience with me, and I will pay you.' 30 He refused and went and put him in prison till he should pay the debt. 31 When his fellow servants saw what had taken place, they were greatly distressed, and they went and reported to their lord all that had taken place. 32 Then his lord summoned him and said to him, 'You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you besought me; 33 and should not you have had mercy on your fellow servant, as I had mercy on you?' 34 And in anger his lord delivered him to the jailers, till he should pay all his debt. 35 So also my heavenly Father will do to every one of you, if you do not forgive your brother from your heart." Matthew 24:44-51 The Lord’s servant, unprepared, acts wickedly, and gets sent to hell. Though a servant, not ready for the Lord’s coming. 44 Therefore you also must be ready; for the Son of man is coming at an hour you do not expect. 45 "Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom his master has set over his household, to give them their food at the proper time? 46 Blessed is that servant whom his master when he comes will find so doing. 47 Truly, I say to you, he will set him over all his possessions. 48 But if that wicked servant says to himself, 'My master is delayed,' 49 and begins to beat his fellow servants, and eats and drinks with the drunken, 50 the master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, 51 and will punish him, and put him with the hypocrites; there men will weep and gnash their teeth. Matthew 25:14-15, 19, 24-30 Lazy servant, unlike faithful ones, gets sent to hell. 14 "For it will be as when a man going on a journey called his servants and entrusted to them his property. 15 to one he gave five talents, to another two, to another one, to each according to his ability. Then he went away…. 19 Now after a long time the master of those servants came and settled accounts with them….24 He also who had received the one talent came forward, saying, 'Master, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow, and gathering where you did not winnow; 25 so I was afraid, and I went and hid your talent in the ground. Here you have what is yours.' 26 But his master answered him, 'You wicked and slothful servant! You knew that I reap where I have not sowed, and gather where I have not winnowed? 27 Then you ought to have invested my money with the bankers, and at my coming I should have received what was my own with interest. 28 So take the talent from him, and give it to him who has the ten talents. 29 For to every one who has will more be given, and he will have abundance; but from him who has not, even what he has will be taken away. 30 And cast the worthless servant into the outer darkness; there men will weep and gnash their teeth.' MARK Mark 4:16-18 – Parable of the sower – Parallel of Luke 8:13 shows here He is speaking of believers, who fall away. 16 And these in like manner are the ones sown upon rocky ground, who, when they hear the word, immediately receive it with joy; 17 and they have no root in themselves, but endure for a while; then, when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately they fall away. Mark 9:42-48 – Metaphorical violence to oneself is better than getting sent to hell by sinful actions. 42 "Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him if a great millstone were hung round his neck and he were thrown into the sea. 43 And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire. 44 45 And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life lame than with two feet to be thrown into hell. 46 47 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out; it is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into hell, 48 where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched. Mark 11:25 - If we don’t forgive, God won’t forgive us. And whenever you stand praying, forgive, if you have anything against any one; so that your Father also who is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses." Mark 13:20-23 – False teachings can lead anyone away from Christ. 20 And if the Lord had not shortened the days, no human being would be saved; but for the sake of the elect, whom he chose, he shortened the days. 21 And then if any one says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'Look, there he is!' do not believe it. 22 False Christs and false prophets will arise and show signs and wonders, to lead astray, if possible, the elect. 23 But take heed; I have told you all things beforehand. LUKE Luke 8:13 – Some will believe in Jesus and fall away. 13 And the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy; but these have no root, they believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 12:42-46 – God’s servants who do evil will get sent to hell with the unbelievers. 42 And the Lord said, "Who then is the faithful and wise steward, whom his master will set over his household, to give them their portion of food at the proper time? 43 Blessed is that servant whom his master when he comes will find so doing. 44 Truly, I say to you, he will set him over all his possessions. 45 But if that servant says to himself, 'My master is delayed in coming,' and begins to beat the menservants and the maidservants, and to eat and drink and get drunk, 46 the master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will punish him, and put him with the unfaithful. JOHN John 6:60-71 – Disciples, followers of Jesus leave him, even one who Jesus himself chose. 60 Many of his disciples, when they heard it, said, "This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?" 61 But Jesus, knowing in himself that his disciples murmured at it, said to them, "Do you take offense at this? 62 Then what if you were to see the Son of man ascending where he was before? 63 It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh is of no avail; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. 64 But there are some of you that do not believe." For Jesus knew from the first who those were that did not believe, and who it was that would betray him. 65 And he said, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father." 66 After this many of his disciples drew back and no longer went about with him. 67 Jesus said to the twelve, "Do you also wish to go away?" 68 Simon Peter answered him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life; 69 and we have believed, and have come to know, that you are the Holy One of God." 70 Jesus answered them, "Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?" 71 He spoke of Judas the son of Simon Iscariot, for he, one of the twelve, was to betray him. John 12:44-48 – Those who believe but ultimately do not keep Jesus words, will be punished. 44 And Jesus cried out and said, "He who believes in me, believes not in me but in him who sent me. 45 And he who sees me sees him who sent me. 46 I have come as light into the world, that whoever believes in me may not remain in darkness. 47 If any one hears my sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world. 48 He who rejects me and does not receive my sayings has a judge; the word that I have spoken will be his judge on the last day. John 15:5-6 – If a man leaves God and departs from him, he is cast into the fire. 5 I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in me, and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If a man does not abide in me, he is cast forth as a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire and burned. John 17:12 – Judas was chosen by Jesus but is now a son of perdition. While I was with them, I kept them in thy name, which thou hast given me; I have guarded them, and none of them is lost but the son of perdition, that the scripture might be fulfilled. ACTS Acts 20:28-30 – Paul’s disciples, believers, will fall away from the faith. 28 Take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God which he obtained with the blood of his own Son. 29 I know that after my departure fierce wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; 30 and from among your own selves will arise men speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them. II. Romans through Hebrews ROMANS Romans 6:12-13, 16 – Sin can again reign in our body, it is possible to fall back into slavery to sin. 12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal bodies, to make you obey their passions. 13 Do not yield your members to sin as instruments of wickedness, but yield yourselves to God as men who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments of righteousness…16 Do you not know that if you yield yourselves to any one as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? Romans 8:12-13 – We will spiritually die if we live according to the flesh. 12 So then, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh-- 13 for if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body you will live. Romans 11:20-22 – If we do not continue in God’s kindness we will get cut off. 20 That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast only through faith. So do not become proud, but stand in awe. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 22 Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off. 1 CORINTHIANS 1 Corinthians 3:13-17 – Judgment of our works, we will be destroyed by God if we destroy God’s temple. 13 each man's work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. 14 If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. 15 If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire. 16 Do you not know that you are God's temple and that God's Spirit dwells in you? 17 If any one destroys God's temple, God will destroy him. For God's temple is holy, and that temple you are. 1 Corinthians 6:8-11 – Corinthian believers are acting sinfully. Such actions, including immorality, lead to our disinheritance. We are deceived if we think otherwise. 8 But you yourselves wrong and defraud, and that even your own brethren. 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor sexual perverts, 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God. 1 Corinthians 6:15-18 – Paul warns against sexual sins that he just said would cause us to be disinherited from God’s kingdom if we so practiced. 15 Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I therefore take the members of Christ and make them members of a prostitute? Never! 16 Do you not know that he who joins himself to a prostitute becomes one body with her? For, as it is written, "The two shall become one flesh." 17 But he who is united to the Lord becomes one spirit with him. 18 Shun immorality. Every other sin which a man commits is outside the body; but the immoral man sins against his own body. 1 Corinthians 9:24-27 – Even Paul writes that he can be disqualified from salvation if he runs aimlessly. 24 Do you not know that in a race all the runners compete, but only one receives the prize? So run that you may obtain it. 25 Every athlete exercises self-control in all things. They do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable. 26 Well, I do not run aimlessly, I do not box as one beating the air; 27 but I pommel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified. 1 Corinthians 10:2-9 – The example of Israelites losing salvation is to us a warning to us to avoid idolatry and immorality that likewise separates us from God. 2 and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, 3 and all ate the same supernatural food 4 and all drank the same supernatural drink. For they drank from the supernatural Rock which followed them, and the Rock was Christ. 5 Nevertheless with most of them God was not pleased; for they were overthrown in the wilderness. 6 Now these things are warnings for us, not to desire evil as they did. 7 Do not be idolaters as some of them were; as it is written, "The people sat down to eat and drink and rose up to dance." 8 We must not indulge in immorality as some of them did, and twenty-three thousand fell in a single day. 1 Corinthians 10:11-12 – This warning means we really can fall. 11 Now these things happened to them as a warning, but they were written down for our instruction, upon whom the end of the ages has come. 12 Therefore let any one who thinks that he stands take heed lest he fall. 1 Corinthians 11:28-30 – Having communion in a bad way can cause damnation. 28 Let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself. 30 That is why many of you are weak and ill, and some have died. 1 Corinthians 15:1-2 – If we do not hold fast we can believe in vain. 1 Now I would remind you, brethren, in what terms I preached to you the gospel, which you received, in which you stand, 2 by which you are saved, if you hold it fast--unless you believed in vain. 2 CORINTHIANS 2 Corinthians 5:20-6:2 – Reconciliation with God is ongoing. It is possible to accept the grace of God in vain. 20 So we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We beseech you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. 21 For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. 2 Corinthians 6 1 Working together with him, then, we entreat you not to accept the grace of God in vain. 2 For he says, "At the acceptable time I have listened to you, and helped you on the day of salvation." Behold, now is the acceptable time; behold, now is the day of salvation. 2 Corinthians 11:2-3 – Even though betrothed to Christ we can be led away from Him by the devil. 2 I feel a divine jealousy for you, for I betrothed you to Christ to present you as a pure bride to her one husband. 3 But I am afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your thoughts will be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ. 2 Corinthians 13:5 – If we fail to meet the test, we will no longer have Christ in us. 5 Examine yourselves, to see whether you are holding to your faith. Test yourselves. Do you not realize that Jesus Christ is in you? --unless indeed you fail to meet the test! GALATIANS Galatians 1:6-9 – Paul notes that some have deserted the gospel, and thus truth. He even posits that if he himself taught a different gospel, he will be accursed. 6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and turning to a different gospel-- 7 not that there is another gospel, but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to that which we preached to you, let him be accursed. Galatians 4:8-9 – We can become slaves of sin once again, and apart from Christ. 8 Formerly, when you did not know God, you were in bondage to beings that by nature are no gods; 9 but now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how can you turn back again to the weak and beggarly elemental spirits, whose slaves you want to be once more? Galatians 5:1-4 – Paul writes that some have fallen away from grace by going back to slavery to the law. 1 For freedom Christ has set us free; stand fast therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery. 2 Now I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you. 3 I testify again to every man who receives circumcision that he is bound to keep the whole law. 4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace. Galatians 5:19-21 – Evil works bring condemnation, separation from God’s kingdom. But if you are led by the Spirit you are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are plain: fornication, impurity, licentiousness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger, selfishness, dissension, party spirit, 21 envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 6:7-9 – If we sow to the flesh we will not inherit eternal life. 7 Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. 8 For he who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption; but he who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. 9And let us not grow weary in well-doing, for in due season we shall reap, if we do not lose heart. EPHESIANS Ephesians 5:2-6 – If we fall back into sin, we will inherit God’s wrath instead of His kingdom. We are deceived if we think otherwise. 1 Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children. 2 And walk in love, as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us, a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God. 3 But fornication and all impurity or covetousness must not even be named among you, as is fitting among saints. 4 Let there be no filthiness, nor silly talk, nor levity, which are not fitting; but instead let there be thanksgiving. 5 Be sure of this, that no fornicator or impure man, or one who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for it is because of these things that the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not associate with them, PHILIPPIANS Philippians 2:12-16 – If one does not work out one’s salvation, Paul would have labored in vain, the Philippians would lose salvation. 12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure. 14 Do all things without grumbling or questioning, 15 that you may be blameless and innocent, children of God without blemish in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world, 16 holding fast the word of life, so that in the day of Christ I may be proud that I did not run in vain or labor in vain. Philippians 3:10-13 – Paul said he hasn’t made salvation, he still must endure or he won’t achieve it. 10 that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, 11 that if possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead. 12 Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect; but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own. 13 Brethren, I do not consider that I have made it my own; but one thing I do, forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead, COLOSSIANS Colossians 1:21-23 – If we shift from the hope of the gospel, we will lose our reconciliation with God. 21 And you, who once were estranged and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds, 22 he has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless and irreproachable before him, 23 provided that you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which has been preached to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, became a minister. Colossians 3:5-9, 24-25 – We can fall back into old sins, if we do, we will experience God’s wrath, and get paid back for such iniquity. 5 Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: fornication, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. 6 On account of these the wrath of God is coming. 7 In these you once walked, when you lived in them. 8 But now put them all away: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and foul talk from your mouth. 9 Do not lie to one another, seeing that you have put off the old nature with its practices. 23 Whatever your task, work heartily, as serving the Lord and not men, 24 knowing that from the Lord you will receive the inheritance as your reward; you are serving the Lord Christ. 25 For the wrongdoer will be paid back for the wrong he has done, and there is no partiality. 1 THESSALONIANS 1 Thessalonians 4:3-8 If we don’t abstain from unchastity, we will feel God’s vengeance. 3 For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you abstain from unchastity; 4 that each one of you know how to take a wife for himself in holiness and honor, 5 not in the passion of lust like heathen who do not know God; 6 that no man transgress, and wrong his brother in this matter, because the Lord is an avenger in all these things, as we solemnly forewarned you. 7 For God has not called us for uncleanness, but in holiness. 8 Therefore whoever disregards this, disregards not man but God, who gives his Holy Spirit to you. 2 THESSALONIANS 2 Thessalonias 3:6, 11-14 – Thessalonian believers walk away from God’s commands and result in actions that separate them from God. 6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is living in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us….11 For we hear that some of you are living in idleness, mere busybodies, not doing any work. 12 Now such persons we command and exhort in the Lord Jesus Christ to do their work in quietness and to earn their own living. 13 Brethren, do not be weary in well-doing. 14 If any one refuses to obey what we say in this letter, note that man, and have nothing to do with him, that he may be ashamed. 1 TIMOTHY 1 Timothy 1:18-20 – We are told to hold true to the faith, or it can be shipwrecked, as it did with two Christians, Hymenaus and Alexander. 18 This charge I commit to you, Timothy, my son, in accordance with the prophetic utterances which pointed to you, that inspired by them you may wage the good warfare, 19 holding faith and a good conscience. By rejecting conscience, certain persons have made shipwreck of their faith, 20 among them Hymenae'us and Alexander, whom I have delivered to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme. 1 Timothy 4:1-2 – Some will depart from the faith giving heed to false teachings. 1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by giving heed to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 through the pretensions of liars whose consciences are seared, 1 Timothy 5:8 – By not providing for his household, one has disowned the faith, worse than an unbeliever. 8 If any one does not provide for his relatives, and especially for his own family, he has disowned the faith and is worse than an unbeliever. 1 Timothy 5:14-15 – Widows have fallen away from Christ to follow Satan. 14 So I would have younger widows marry, bear children, rule their households, and give the enemy no occasion to revile us. 15 For some have already strayed after Satan. 1 Timothy 6:9-10 – Riches have caused some to wander from the faith, and into ruin and destruction. 9 But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation, into a snare, into many senseless and hurtful desires that plunge men into ruin and destruction. 10 For the love of money is the root of all
Alan Lye
Supporter
Earlier on I accepted pre-destination and the preservation of the saints i.e. we are chosen and therefore we are assured of our salvation thereafter. However, I have changed my position on the latter for reasons stated by some of the writers here. The Bible seems to have both positions but looking back at OT Israel 'the chosen nation' and how God dealt with their apostasy and idolatry, I believe God will do the same to His Church as in Revelations. God must be consistent and act righteously. How do we explain the behaviour of Christians whose attitude and behaviour is contradictory. The Calvinists will explain that there is the visible and invisible church - i.e. there are those who think they are Christians, but are not. The Arminians will state that these people will lose their salvation. There is a challenge for both. For the Calvinists, how does a person know he is not really a Christian. How do the Calvinist writers on this page know their exact salvation status? For the Arminians, when do you sin to a point of no return. Surely God is not picking on us in every way since no one stops sinning after becoming a Christian. Either position leads us to difficult conclusions which cannot be resolved completely because we cannot define the 'quantity, degree and duration' of sins to disqualify our salvation in either way. The Bible is clear that salvation is a process - justification, sanctification and glorification. In that process, the core issue is our heart and intent regarding sin when we become believers. If we do not continue to have the conviction of sin thereafter and does not work out our salvation by living the life that pleases God, then we better re-evaluate our salvation, whether as a Calvinist or Arminian. You can't deceive God. But I find the Calvinist's position on the invisible church stressful because it will be devastating to find out that you are not a Christian when you thought otherwise - in other words, you were not in the 'invisible' church. Therefore I take delight as a believer by committing to a new way of living i.e. to shun sin. We unify the two positions by stating that salvation is God's sovereignty and Man's responsibility. Since salvation is both an event and a process. I have to deal with my sins by fearing the wrath of God and enjoy His peace & love thru Jesus in my daily living. I do this through my faith in Christ and obedience with the power of the Holy Spirit to overcome. The Bible is clear - those who hold this position to the end of life gets the crowns and keep their names in the Book of Life. May our heavenly Father gives us the wisdom to know the truth and the courage to live it.
Jason Winn
Supporter
If you have through faith received and trusted in Jesus Christ, then no, you cannot lose your salvation. Even after accepting Jesus into your life, you will still continue to sin and fall short of the glory of God. However, because you are in Jesus, these sins are covered by the work of Jesus on the cross. It's only after accepting Christ, do we do our best to live a life that glorifies him. Scripture References: John 10:28-29 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. There are several other good passages that talk about this: You are a new creation once you accept Jesus: 2 Corinthians 5:17 You will have eternal life and not be separated from Jesus: John 3:16 Nothing can separate you from the love of Jesus: Romans 8:38-39
Jennifer Rothnie
Supporter
Firstly, the exact question must be clarified. Is it "Can any sin or anything on earth make us lose the seal of the holy spirit which is our guarantee of salvation?", or "Once a believer has come to the saving knowledge of Christ, is there anything that can happen to make Jesus declare "I never knew you" on the last day?" Secondly, the difference between God's eternal perspective and man's finite perspective must be kept in mind. Thirdly, salvation is used in scripture at times both to speak of Jesus delivering us from sin and into life, and to refer to the verdict of eternal life handed out at the judgement. The first is a process that affects us on earth, the second will not occur until we die. Lastly, one's particular believes about eternal security do not make one more or less of a christian. This is one of the topics of largest division in the church, yet it should not be. With these things in mind, we can examine what scripture says on the topic of salvation. **** When we believe, we are granted the seal of the Holy Spirit. This is the arrabon (engagement ring), the earnest payment of a future inheritance of eternal life. (Eph 1:13-14) This guarantees that God will keep all terms of the covenant (which is frankly, all the terms of the new covenant) and will grant us eternal life at the time of his "redemption of the purchased possession". Nothing on earth, no power of the air, no trial of man, can break this seal and separate us from the love of God (Romans 8:31-39, John 10:27-28). Nor can any work or sin that we commit condemn us (Rom 8:1-4). We cannot 'lose' our salvation in the sense of our sins making us ineligible, or in the sense of misplacing it, or in the sense of God arbitrarily taking it away, etc. Yet, if we reject the covenant at some point, or break fellowship with the spirit of our own choice, what then? Just as a women breaking off her engagement, or a man who refuses to collect on his inheritance, we cannot then claim the promise of salvation at judgement day. Here is where the difference from God's perspective and man's perspective becomes so important. From God's perspective, he already knows who will be saved, who will endure unto the end, those who are His (II Tim 2:14-19). Jesus will say "I never knew you" (Matt 7:15-27) to false teachers who may have once known him (II Peter 2:1-22), and who did not stand the test (II Tim 3:1-9). God will blot out many names from the book of life (Psalms 69:22-28, Rev 3:4-6), but it is not because he did not know the final roster before even time began (John 10:14-18). People may both deny and declare Christ during their lives (Paul being an excellent example, the false teachers an example of the opposite) - yet there will only be one judgement handed down at the end. (Luke 12:8-10, Mark 10:31, Ezek 33:12-20). God is not surprised, He knows whose faith will come through all tests as genuine, and whose will crumble as impure. (1 Peter 1:7-9) Salvation is the end result of genuine faith - genuine here being faith that endures the refining process, and is proved true - faith that does not crumble before the end and deny Christ. "If we died with him, we will also live with him, if we endure, we will also reign with him. If we disown him, he will also disown us, if we are faithless, he remains faithful, for he cannot disown himself." - II Tim 2:11-13 From man's perspective: Time and time again we are admonished to 'endure until the end' (Rev 2:10), to remain with him (I John 2:27-28, II John 1:9, John 15:5-17), to overcome (James 1:12), to finish what we began (Luke 14:28-35, Heb 6:9-12, II Tim 4:6-8), to persevere (James 1:2-8), and to make our election sure (II Peter 1:5-11). Several examples are given of those who rejected their faith or fell away (1 Tim 1:18-20, II Tim 2:17-19, II Peter 2:1-3, Heb 6:1-8). Not every seed that takes root (faith) will endure until the end. (Mark 4:13-20, Heb 6:7-8) Those who do not remain will be burned (John 15:5-6)
Morris Griffin
Supporter
4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame . 1Now the Spirit speaks expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; These 2 scriptures confirm that you can fall from grace by departing from faith. Without faith it is impossible to please God. I don't believe anything in heaven will be displeasing to God.
JD Abshire
Supporter
Our salvation is not dependent upon our ability but on the power and finished work of The Lord Jesus Christ. Consider Hebrews 1:3 "Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;" The same power that holds the universe together keeps true believers eternally saved.
Alfred Vella
Supporter
The common definition of eternal security is, once a person becomes saved by the grace of God he will ALWAYS remain saved. Hence, that is why this teaching is often called once saved always saved. The rest of the eternal security definition, though usually unspoken but understood, is: Eternal security (once saved always saved) is a license for immorality That Christian will remain saved regardless how far he backslides and plunges into sin, becomes lukewarm and unforgiving, bears no fruit, disowns Jesus and/or apostatizes doctrinally even to the point of becoming an atheist, etc.! If one was ever saved, at any point in his life, he will remain saved and his salvation is never jeopardized under any circumstances, according to them. Though popular, eternal security is an ear-tickling poisonous LIE often wrongly taught under grace, the infinite work of Christ and Jesus' blood, which has caused MULTITUDES of unwary Christians to lower their guard and fall prey to spiritual death. Such twice lost people also do not recognize their vital need of repentance for salvation. Sometimes they will refer to themselves as a Christian alcoholic, Christian addicted to pornography, etc. Such people are actually described in 2 Peter 2:20-22, but spiritually blinded. Eternal security (once saved always saved) is a license to sin Though it should never be, the lingering question for many is: "Is once saved always saved or a conditional security the Biblical truth?" While some Bible believers embrace a conditional security in Christ (or NO eternal security) most professing Christians live in no fear of God or concern about sinning as they embrace once saved always saved. Too many continue to be tossed back and forth on this salvation-related issue, but this need not be the case. Below is a vast array of Bible-based teachings on this very crucial issue. They range from spiritual death to imputed righteousness to a works salvation, etc., which dismantles eternal security (or once saved always saved)
Singapore Moses
Supporter
Can we lose our salvation? Among the Bible-believing Christians there are two groups which hold views totally opposed to each other concerning salvation. One group claims, "Once saved, always safe!" The other group asserts, "Only those who endure till the end will be saved!" This issue has been responsible to throw believers to opposite camps resulting in bitter fights. What does the Bible say concerning this matter? There are Scripture texts to support each view, if they are taken in isolation. Here are a few sample texts in support of "eternal security." Philippians 1:6, "God who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ." John 10:27-29, "I give My sheep eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand." John 17:12, "Father, those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition." Romans 8:30, "Whom God predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified." Some of the favourite texts of the other group are these: Mt 24:13, "He who endures to the end shall be saved." 1 Cor 10:5,12, "With most of our fathers God was not well pleased, for their bodies were scattered in the wilderness... Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall." Heb 10:38, "Now the just shall live by faith; but if anyone draws back, My soul has no pleasure in him." These are the two theological streams in Christendom. The first view was advocated by John Calvin (1509-1564), a French Reformer. He said, "Salvation is not gained by our merit; so it cannot be lost by our demerit." His favourite text was Ephesians 2:8,9. In other words, Calvin emphasized God's part in our salvation. As a reaction to Calvinism, Jacob Arminius (1560-1609), a Dutch Theologian, emphasized man's part in salvation. Among his favourite texts was Philippians 2:12, "Work out your own salvation." Calvinism overemphasizes God's sovereignty and Arminianism man's responsibility. I believe that these are simply two sides of the same coin. The Bible is neither Calvinistic not Arminian! It beautifully balances both these views as the following passages confirm— Phil 2:12,13, "Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." Jer 32:40, "I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from doing them good; but I will put My fear in their hearts so that they will not depart from Me." Hos 10:12, "We are to "sow" righteousness, and God will "shower" righteousness on us. We are not saved by "works" (Eph 2:8,9), but we must "strive" to enter through the narrow gate (Lk 13:23,24). No condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, but they must walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit (Rom 8:1). Jesus is the Author and Finisher of our faith, but we must be patient and consistent runners (Heb 12:1,2). Some more references to show how God's sovereignity and man's responsibility must be balanced: Lev 20:7,8; Rom 6:11-14; Col 3:9,10,5,8; 1 Pet 2:9-11; 2 Cor 6:18 & 7:1; 1 Jn 3:2,3; 1 Jn 5:18; 1 Thess 5:22,23; etc. Now coming to our question: "Can we lose our salvation?" The wholesome teaching of the Bible does not give the answer as "yes" or "no." On the other hand, the Bible teaches that having been saved through grace, we must deny all ungodliness and walk in obedience to God's Word and stay prepared always for the Return of Christ (Tit 2:11-13). Any hairsplitting of this issue will only destroy the unity of the Body of Christ and damage our spiritual wellbeing. Without God I cannot; without me He will not!
Benny Alexander
Supporter
First of all we must understand that - Salvation is a continuous process, we need to work out each day and every moment. Note what Paul expresses about the salvation - Philippians 2:12 "Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;" Paul wrote to Romans (13:11) "And do this, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep; for now our salvation is nearer than when we first believed." - Where you will see Salvation is nearer and yet in progress. In I Corinthians 1:18, you will see "For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." that salvation is continuous (Being saved) Finally, according to Hebrews 1:14 "Are they not all ministering spirits sent forth to minister for those who will inherit salvation?", we can understand only at the end we will "inherit" salvation. "common salvation" (Jude 1:3) is what we receive when one repents and have faith on Jesus. Not just repentance, but practicing it alone can save us permanently towards eternal life. Praise be to God.
Joannie Cooper
Supporter
Not abiding in Jesus will cost someone to lose salvation. Who ever runs the race and not finish is not worthy of the kingdom If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered, and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. - King James Version
William Mckeen
Supporter
This question is answered in Rev 22:18-19: Re 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book. Re 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. Verse 18 explains why many are sick and plagued with diseases. Verse 19 is God's answer to the question. Yes, your name can be taken out of the book of life. It is written! Which is to lose salvation for not being a Berean and studying to be approved. We must study to see if what is being preached lines up with what the Bible says is true. We are warned many times of false doctrines, and false teachers, and the word says many will be led astray from sound doctrine, doesn't it? Thanks for the opportunity to share the truth.
JEAN KABUYA
Supporter
Ezekiel 18:4 King James Version (KJV) 4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die. If you read the all chapter 18 of Ezeckiel, you will find out that if a christian strays and dies in sin, he will loose his salvation for as we said it in an other question, It is not"Once Saved, Always Saved". The Lord Jesus Christ said that only those who will endure or persevere to the very end will be saved meaning if you give up, you are of course lost, Ezekiel 3:15-24 read King James Version (KJV) 16 And it came to pass at the end of seven days, that the word of the Lord came unto me, saying, 17 Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me. 18 When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand. 19 Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul. 20 Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumbling-block before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand. 21 Nevertheless if thou warn the righteous man, that the righteous sin not, and he doth not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also thou hast delivered thy soul. 22 And the hand of the Lord was there upon me; and he said unto me, Arise, go forth into the plain, and I will there talk with thee. Be really careful do not be deceived by false doctrines for Satan has infiltrated the all Christianity system and is deceiving everyone continually. Stay blessed Jean Clement Pastor @ ESV
Tom Streets
Supporter
For a Christian to lose salvation, there would have to be damage to the relationship with The Lord. This is called "falling away." To fall away from something, one first had to be in/on/at that something. In this case, salvation equals a saved relationship, such that at any moment a person could die, and be taken by God to eternal reward. In John 6:29 Jesus said "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." In Rev. 3:2-5 we learn from The Lord that incompleted deeds are a great problem. As James said that faith without works is dead, being alone; the point is echoed here, where The Lord said, "I know your deeds, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead." In verse 5, The Lord said,"He who overcomes shall thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father, and before His angels." Also, in Rev. 22:19 John said " "and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book." Overcoming is a requirement to keeping a name in the book of life, for God will not leave a name in that book when He decides to "take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city..." If you believe otherwise, you are in a death spiral of slumber! You know neither the day nor the hour when the Son of Man / bridegroom will come. He said it will be "like a thief in the night" and you will not be expecting it, so there will not be a chance to then make preparation. If your name is erased, not still there, your protests will be of no help to you. In Heb. 6:4-6 is written, "For in the case of those who have been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God, and put Him to open shame." This is no description of a pretender, a person not truly, fully converted; but of a Christian who was FAITHFUL, but later FELL AWAY! God does not want ANYONE to perish and go to Hell. But people do. No one can snatch us out of His hand, but He does not chain us to His hand. We can step out of it at any time, when we step off of the strait and narrow way. The Lord made a CONDITIONAL statement in Rev. 2:10b, "Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life."In Phil. 3:9-13 Paul said that "I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it [resurrection from the dead] yet..." So it is somewhat like the baseball catcher, Yogi Berr a, used to say, "It ain't over 'till it's over! For you to receive the ultimate reward from The Lord, you must persevere until the very end. If one reaches physical death without his relationship with The Lord both successful and current; then he failed the condition given in the Lord's statement, and he LOSES the reward: the crown of life! Any person can refuse an inheritance. To renounce (rather than to cultivate) one's relationship with God, is to ABANDON His blessings in eternity. When one has estranged himself from God, that person abandoned God, and therefore, His blessings : Heaven. God desires that we succeed in living as His children (and therefore His heirs), so He has given many warnings. He has not been wasteful in giving us those warnings. We need them. Why? Because. The efforts of Satan are throughout all time. Jim N gave a great summary of many textual directives, warnings, etc. When we read Paul's concern that even he could become DISQUALIFIED, we had better pay attention! 1Cor.9:27 We must reevaluate beliefs which conflict with the MANY WARNINGS to Christians. Many have believed meanings for scriptures in conflict with other scriptures, trying to override them. Truth is found when finding how scriptures AGREE!
Iyke Onyenorah
Supporter
This has been one of the most contentious issues regarding salvation among Christians all over the world. It is very depressing that fogginess of the understanding of the average Christian of this issue has continued to make the work of spreading the gospel very difficult and many souls are perishing by the second by falling away. To the glory of God, the responses given so far to this question on this forum warms the heart as it would appear that many Christians see salvation as a prized possession that must be guarded jealously. a Christian is justified by faith (Romans 5:1, Ephesians 2:8-9) sanctified by the blood of Jesus (John 3:16; 1 Pet. 1:18-19) as a result of which a change took place (2 Corr. 5:17) "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away, behold, all things are become new". Then the bible tells us that we must continuously hunger for the righteousness of God by studying His word and keeping His commandments and other works as commanded, and by so doing work out our salvation with fear and trembling. It follows therefore that that salvation is not just a one-off event but a process since we are working towards a goal -glorification after judgement. This means that our faith must be sustained and nurture to grow so that we can move from being babes to being adults in the word and work of God. Therefore at whatever point we renege on these tenets of Christianity we are seen to be falling away from the faith and losing our salvation.It is my firm belief that the doctrine of 'once save, always saved" is one of Satan's weapons of fulfilling the end-time prophecy of perilous times, people loving themselves more than God and giving over to the doctrines of the devil etc. This must be avoided. Paul encouraged Christians to as much as possible try to put the flesh under so that we can humble ourselves and follow through to the end. May God help us by the Holy Spirit to make it in Jesus' name!
Chris Eleam
Supporter
Notice the inspired warning of the disciple Jude. He wrote: “Beloved ones, though I was making every effort to write you about the salvation we hold in common, I found it necessary to write you to exhort you to put up a hard fight for the faith that was once for all time delivered to the holy ones.” (Jude 3) Why did Jude write this? Because he knew that individual Christians could still lose the ‘salvation they hold in common.’ He went on to say: “I desire to remind you. . . that Jehovah, although he saved a people [the Israelites] out of the land of Egypt, afterwards destroyed those not showing faith.”—Jude 5. Jude’s warning would be pointless if Christians did not face a danger similar to that of those Israelites. Jude was not questioning the value of Jesus’ sacrifice. That sacrifice has saved us from Adamic sin, and Jesus will protect those who exercise faith in him. No one can snatch them out of his hand. But we can lose that protection. How? By doing what was done by many Israelites who were saved from Egypt. We can deliberately choose to disobey God.—Deuteronomy 30:19, 20. Imagine being rescued from a burning tower. Think of the relief you would feel as you were safely taken from the building and the rescuer said: “You are safe now.” Yes, you would have been saved from certain death. But what would happen if you decided to go back into the building for some foolish reason? Your life would again be in danger. Christians are in a saved condition. They have the prospect of everlasting life because they are in an approved position before God. As a group, their salvation from Adamic sin and all its consequences is sure. But individually they will be saved to eternal life only if they continue to adhere to all of God’s requirements. Jesus emphasized this when he likened himself to a vine and his disciples to branches in that vine. He said: “Every branch in me not bearing fruit [God] takes away. . . If anyone does not remain in union with me, he is cast out as a branch and is dried up; and men gather those branches up and pitch them into the fire and they are burned.” (John 15:2, 6; Hebrews 6:4-6) Those losing faith in Jesus also lose everlasting life.
Steve Stevens
Supporter
It is so disheartening to me how so many people who proclaim to be Christians can hold to this doctrine that one can actually lose their salvation. It is even more disheartening that so-called Christians use passages of scripture that have nothing to do with salvation, to justify these erroneous beliefs. This entire debate can be summed up into two main beliefs. Simply put, you either believe in the sovereignty of Man, or the sovereignty of God. It is unfathomable to me to think that though I can't possibly do anything to earn my salvation, that I could then somehow manage to lose it. Yes, I know the "carnal christian" argument. Come on, friends. One who is authentically born again will not continue on living a life of habitual sin; they will not continue on living simply to gratify the appetites of their flesh. There is so much debate about this issue, when we hear it clearly spoken from our Messiah, Himself in John 10:28: "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand." How horrible it is, that we would have the audacity to argue against the very words of the one who came to save us! He said He knows His sheep and that not on shall be plucked from His hand. Back to the "carnal christian" argument. If you claim that you made some superficial profession of faith, or said some prayer in your heart, and then end up a murderer, you were never a sheep of His fold to begin with. The question is whether or not the Holy Spirit has truly inhabited you, and has begun the regenerative process. Hebrews 6 paints the picture so someone who merely gives God lip service. They participate in all the things that authentic believers do, and maybe even to the point that they experience some general grace in their life, but if they have not been regenerated by the Holy Spirit, they aren't true sheep. This speaks to the parable of the shower, as well. The "good soil" at the very end of the parable is the key point. The good soil represents the true, authentic salvation, and rebirth by the indwelling Holy Spirit. You and I could not die on the cross and save ourselves from our depravity and eternal damnation. Only Christ was able to lay down His life and take it up again. Look up the first chapter of Ephesians. The Holy Spirit seals us and is the guarantee of our eternal inheritance. Folks, we cannot get around that! You cannot believe that God has the power to save you and then reject that He has the power to keep you. It does not work! We will never truly understand salvation until we understand that it ultimately has nothing to do with us, and everything to do with God and Him receiving all Glory and honor!
Ron Hepburn
Supporter
If we believe that the Holy Bible is God's word and inerrant, then there has to be internal consistancy throughout all the bible (2 Tim. 3:16). Remember, there was no NT when Paul wrote this to Timothy...all there was what we know as the OT. If we believe that as Christians we CANNOT lose our salvation, then our condition (post-the cross of Jesus) is a "better" condition than Adam prior to him sinning. Adam was created perfect without sin and when he sinned, he "lost" eternity. But NOW we cannot lose it?!? That would prove that there is a variation to God and He does turn (contradiction to James 1:17). Then Satan's argument against God is proved true. God is unfair, not balanced (again contradiction with Jesus' own words in Matt 5:45). God does not prohibit free will, even after we have accepted Christ as our personal Savior. That would be a contradiction with Jer. 4:1 ‘If you will return, O Israel,’ says the LORD, ‘Return to Me; And if you will put away your abominations out of My sight, Then you shall not be moved. We need to follow God's instruction on bible study, (e.g Isaiah 28:10..."line upon line, precept upon precept"), because God's word IS consistent and therefore inerrant.
Ariel HaNaviy
Supporter
Short Answer: A Christian cannot lose his salvation if indeed it is genuine and not merely intellectual (Jn 8:31). To make a claim to faith by confessing faith in Yeshua (Jesus) but then to shrink back (Heb 10:35-39), reject Jesus, and essentially leave the community of believers (Luke 10:16) is described as a “fall from grace” (Gal 5:4). It is not as if you had genuine salvation and then lost it. It is that by leaving Christ so cavalierly, you prove that you were never truly genuinely saved to begin with! (1 Jn 2:19) This is truly a dangerous game to play with God considering the sober warnings in Heb 6:4-8. Longer Answer: Let’s exegete Hebrews 6:4-8 a bit more closely. I don't believe this passage teaches that you can lose your eternal salvation. It seems to be teaching that mere membership in a believing community (a Church, synagogue, Christian family, etc.) is not enough to secure genuine salvation. For indeed, experience shows that those who join the believing community by confessing faith in Yeshua but later turn away from it and reject him—more often than not never repent and return to the faith they once confessed. We might say, from strictly a human perspective, that in such a scenario, repentance is impossible. Messianic Jewish author Tim Hegg aptly notes, “Our author builds his case on the fact that if, after experiencing the realities of the believing community and witnessing all of the evidences of God’s blessing upon the community—if after this they reject Yeshua, it is no different than those who rejected Him after they witnessed His life and His miracles, and even His resurrection from the dead. Such people evidence the same hardened heart as possessed by those who sought to have Yeshua crucified. But even worse, they crucify Him again, putting to open shame the very One Who conquered death and Who now reigns at God’s right hand.” The way to accurately understand this passage is to make sure our exegesis draws from the very same examples that our author uses, which is ancient Isra'el in the TaNaKH (OT), introduced way back in Heb 3:7 as those who heard the voice of God yet put God to the test by allowing themselves to drift away from the message of salvation (Heb 2:1-3). It is with ancient, straying Isra'el in mind that he makes his analogy in Heb 6:1-8. Again, Hegg’s insights will help to see the practical application of this closing analogy in Heb 6:7, 8: “In the analogy, the rain is the word of God, and it falls upon the ears of all who gather within the community. Yet in one field it produces fruit, while in the other only thorns. Our author is concerned that some in this community were listening to and even entertaining the false teachers’ notions that Yeshua, while an important person, was not worthy of one’s life, and certainly not worthy to be worshiped. Giving such heretical teaching a place within the community was in our author’s viewpoint not only dangerous but also wrong. He warns them about the deceitfulness of their own hearts, urging them to make sure of their true commitment to Yeshua—that they fully affirm Him to be the promised Messiah and the only one through whom a sinner can stand righteous before the Father. To borrow Peter’s words, our author is urging his readers to make their calling and election secure” (2 Pet 1:10). I don't live my life “worrying” about my salvation as long as I daily abide in his Word (Jn 8:31) by holding fast to “Christ, the head of the body” (Col 2:19). The individual who lives his life believing he can, of himself, abort GENUINE salvation, defeats his very conscience, which has been created to carry the mind and actions of the Messiah (Rom 12:2; Eph 2:8-10; Phil 2:5). I’m not saying that genuine believers don’t go through moments of “doubt” and uncertainty in their lives. What I am saying is that all believers, at some point in their lives, are supposed to eventually have full assurance, by the Spirit, of what it means to be a child of God (Rom. 8:16).
D W
Supporter
Can a Christian lose salvation? No. Can Christ lose a Christian? No. Salvation is the free gift of God based upon the sacrifice of Jesus at the Cross. God will never ask for us to return His free gift, and no matter how hard some folks try (sinning) they will still appear before the Judgment Seat of Christ, not for loss of salvation, not for punishment, but to hear what a mighty witness they could have been throughout each lifetime.
Dan Rivers
Supporter
The parable of the sower, Matt 13:3-9, Mark 4:2-9, Luke 8:4-8, clearly describes those that for a time will call themselves Christians, but will fall away and NEVER produce any fruit. Only the GOOD soil can and WILL produce fruit! It seems that the meaning of this parable was very important, as Jesus said, [Mar 4:13 NLT] 13 Then Jesus said to them, "If you can't understand the meaning of this parable, how will you understand all the other parables? If we don't understand that some that "claim" to be Christians are not and will fall, then we won't be able to understand the other things of God... All Glory and Praise to the Lord!
Ed Smith
Supporter
The Bible was written to and about the saved people. It is full of warnings and cautions about rremaining faithful in order not to be lost. For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire. 2 Peter 2:20-22 (KJV) What could be worse that their first condition if it is not condenmnation to hell.
Lynne Carroll
Supporter
God loves us no matter what. He know's as human's we are of a sinful nature. I believe with all my heart and soul that when we sin, and repent to our Father God in the name of Jesus Christ, and are sorry for our sins, he forgives us. As a Christian, Born again, we belong to Christ. Christ belongs to the Father God. Many times we stray away. God is always waiting for us. He gave us a choice. Either we follow him, or we do not. I mess up all the time, and I am sure all humans do too. I always come to prayer to my Father, and ask for forgiveness. You can lose Salvation if you turn away from God and decide to go your own route. Never, ever to come back to him. That is how you lose your Salvation. By choosing the "human route, and not the Godly wise route. When you mess up, go to our Father in prayer. I bet you he will be there waiting for you.
dave tyler
Supporter
This is a subject of strong debate, and is a division among churches. Who am I to say with 100% confidence that one will lose salvation or not. This is something that I have studied for a while. I can look at my own life and wonder if I did in fact lose my own salvation. While I don't believe I did, the power of conviction sure lost it's power in my life. There is no way anybody can tell me that I was never saved. I had a very dramatic conversion. I was a very bad person in my younger days to the point of being evil. I do know that I was an open door for demons. When Jesus came into my life I was by myself watching T.V. and the preacher on T.V stopped talking and started telling me everything that was happening to me at that time in my life. Well he led me to the cross of Jesus and the demons that were in me left in a hurry. Everything changed and I was delivered from all the bad I was involved with. All my time was turned to my walk with our Lord. This went on for many years, and I was even baptized in the Holy Spirit while I was reading my bible. Many years went by with God blessing me in many ways, until I started to get pride in my life. Just as God said in Lev 26:14-39 He would bring a curse upon my life. I lost everything that God had bless me with! The punishment led me to repent, but it seems that I never got back to the place that I once was. I do now have a daily walk with our Lord, and praise Him always. During the time when I was falling away from the Lord, and lost everything. I could not tell you that if I had died during this time that I would have gone to heaven. I do believe that I could have gone to hell for the sins that I was committing. I don't know for sure what would have happened. So who can really say for sure when our Lord would remove the Seed of Life from your life, or if He ever does? I do know that the Seed of Life will go into a dormant state and if we repent our Lord will restore us (Lev 26:40-46). If we don't, I know that a seed will last a very long time without being planted or watered. So to those who were very close to our Lord that had a lot of the Word (Seed) in your heart before backsliding, you will be able to last longer then those who didn't have a lot of the Word (Seed) in your life. On your return to the Lord there will be a lot of shame for what you have done. Our Lord will forgive you before you will be able to forgive yourself. Don't give up because our Lord will be testing you along the way. If you are being punished for the sins that you have committed, it means that you are a true child of the Father in heaven. Take your punishment, repent and continue to walk with your Father in heaven.
Ed Smith
Supporter
No one or no power can snatch a Christian from the hand of God. But the Christian can to leave the hand of God by choosing to sin and not be willing to repent. The only place in the Bible where the phrase "fall from grace"is used indicates that we can fall (Gal. 5:3-4). The books of Romans through Revelation were written to Christians, much of it warning them to remain faithful so they shouldn't be lost. This doesn't mean we have to worry, just do the best you can and repent and God for forgiveness when ou sin. The Apostle Paul said he had to buffet his body lest after preaching to others he might be a cast away.
My Cup Overflows
Supporter
I believe it is possible to fall from grace, shipwreck your faith, have your name erased out of the book of life, etc. Just like the Bible says. The church in Sardis was told that there were those who had kept their robes white and their names would not be erased from the Book of Life. Who has white garments except the church? Obviously, it is possible to soil them. How can they be cleaned then? 1 John 1:9 that's how. John said, "I write these things that you sin not, but if you do we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ." Paul wrote to the church that the wages of sin is death and that sin hardens the heart. Hardening is a process of death. We can ignore the Holy Spirits voice and continue unrepentant in sin which will harden the heart. Hebrews says that someone who has tasted of the goodness of God and the heavenly gifts and turned away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance. Jesus died for them once and He would have to be crucified again. The thing to remember is that without faith it is impossible to please God. We are saved by grace THROUGH FAITH. Paul said Jesus is coming back for everyone who has LOVED HIS APPEARING. Do you look forward to and long for His coming? Hebrews says there will also be those who shrink back from Him at His coming. Now be sure, this is not a works thing though some people make it out to be that way. Jesus paid it all and salvation is a free gift. You holding out your hand to receive it by faith is not a work nor does it mean you earned it. It is still free. And I think that it would be very hard to lose your salvation, but I believe we all know when we are not right with God. Just do the 1 John 1:9 thing and get it right. Jesus will leave the 99 and search for the one lost sheep and so it is with us when we have unrepentant sin in our life. The Holy Spirit continually convicts us and I believe will until our last breath. But each time we say no to Him or tune Him out that hardens our heart and God has to do something bigger and louder next time to get our attention. At some point, only God knows when that is, a person has gone too far and they are dead again spiritually. Like I said, we all know when we are not right with God and we are warned to test ourselves to see if we are in the faith. Also, if you think about it, why all the warnings in the Bible and why do we need to make sure we are ready for Jesus to come back if we are "once saved always saved"? Jesus will come like a thief in the night. Why does that matter to Christians if we are going no matter what?
Robert Quay
Supporter
I found this verse which gives water tight guarantee in that God whose promises to us is infallible can never fail in the safety of eternal salvation - 2Cor.1:21-22 And it is God who establishes us with you in Christ, and has anointed us, and who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
Glenn Harrell
Supporter
The law proved to all of us that, if we were required to be good enough for God to love and save us--then NONE of us stood a chance or hope. We are all sinful, even beyond salvation. However, no child of God is a "sinner" (used as a noun). He has made us to be "Saints". Paul asked a legitimate question to the "stupid" Galatians who were being misled by the legalists. "You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified? This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? (Galatians 3:1-4) In other words, God has done this thing called Salvation in me and God himself will see it through (perfect it). Period. (Philippians 2:13) I have no confidence in the flesh but full confidence in the Spirit to perfect the work of God in me, his child. If a Christian can loose something they committed no moral effort for, then what moral act(s) can the Christian commit to cause the loss of that new life? (Titus 3:4-7) Is this a three strikes you are out kind of thing? How many of these bad boy deeds must he commit before he looses what he never earned? (Ephesians 2:8-9) How long can the Christian sin before God says "That's it--you've crossed the line.I take my love back!" Have you and I crossed that line and just don't know it? Do we have to get caught first? "How about a little slack for all of us who are still imperfect from those who haven't been caught yet?" Too, we might all remember Hebrews 6. If we could loose our salvation, we can't get it back. We are incapable of going in and out of grace or in and out of the womb. The Hebrews 6 teaching is to remind us that it is possible to loose the opportunity to receive Christ after being enlightened to his offer of Grace, even after tasting His goodness and feeling the call of the Spirit. The child of God will be confessing the sin committed daily for the rest of his/her life. (I John 1:9) "Dear Lord, So far I've done all right. I haven't gossipped; haven't lost my temper,haven't been greedy, grumpy, nasty, selfish, or overindulgent. I'm really glad about that. But in a few minutes, God, I'm going to get out of bed. And from then on, I'm going to need a lot more help." -author unknown The child of God can be sure that his loving God will correct him and that the means of that correction is at God's discretion and definition. (Hebrews 12 :4-12) God does not disown his children--He disciplines them just as a sinful earthly father would. He knows that our feet are of clay. The child of God can take the words of Jesus to heart. "My sheep know my voice, and I know them. They follow me, and I give them eternal life, so that they will never be lost.No one can snatch them out of my hand." (John 10:27-28) Believe what you must about loosing this thing called Salvation. Live in the insecurity of doubt if necessary. Judge those around you if you must as to whether or not they have gone too far and God has disowned them for eternity. This will not change one bit the definition of eternal life defined by the Shepherd of my soul. I rejoice in the impotency of anyone wanting to snatch me from his hand. Glory!
Howard Richardson
Supporter
I believe that you can chose to give up your faith. I know that many chose not to read Hebrews 10 the way I do but it does say: 10:26 For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remain etch no more sacrifice for sins, but certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. It goes on to say in 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the spirit of grace. I know there is a lot of debate on how that is to be interpreted, whether it refers to a person once sanctified or whether it is speaking of someone who has trodden over the Son who is sanctified. But isn't it also written that there will be those who cry out, Lord have we not prophesied in thy name and he will answer, I know you not. No I don't think it's the occasional fall to temptation that could lose a person his grace but I also believe that there are those that have had a hardening of there heart and get so angry with God they Willfully turn away and sin to spite his authority and give up there salvation. God is righteous and can undo the new creation, to put some humanistic limit in saying God cannot undo that which he has done is just that, humanizing God. I do want to erasure anyone reading this that if you are here worried this could apply to you I doubt it does for your mere presence in this thread would indicate a longing to be closer to God and longing to be closer to God is what I believe he wants us to keep in our hearts.
jose francisco
Supporter
Seeing both arguments are supported with biblical passages. Perhaps reconciling both could make us conclude that: While still alive, a true Christian cannot lose his salvation. Even if he is caught in wrong doctrines and sins, then repents, he will be forgiven and restored into right relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ. He does not need to "accept" again the Lord Jesus Christ. He does not need to be "born-again" again. But if he is falling away from the faith, either thru wrong and dangerous doctrines or thru sins in his life, and he died in them. Then, his salvation is lost. This is the essence of all the biblical warnings against apostasy and living in sin.
PREMKUMAR SAMUEL
Supporter
There are around 80 passages in the New Testament which gives the reader a clear warning about one loosing the salvation.There are mentions in the bible about names being scraped out from the book of life. The apostle Paul says Having preached unto others......... He who endures till the end will be saved. The author of the letter to the hebrews clearly spellsout " It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, 6 if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace ".
Ben Amanambu
Supporter
When God created Adam, they often spent time together as friends. But then God gave him instruction not to eat of the tree of good and evil and the day he eats he will surely die spiritually. But satan told him...you shall not die. Rather than obeying God Adam choose to obey satan and we know the result. Today many people are telling Christians they would not die spiritually even if they are living in disobedience. There is conscious and unconscious sin. When a christian consciously lives in sin he will surely die spiritually and eternally. The children of Israel who were saved from Egypt had the same problem...many of them could not make it to the promised land. The bible said they are our example...we must not lust after evil things after we are saved. What happened to them can happen to us... Thank you.
Lynn Willis
Supporter
SO much said on this topic! Here's a brief synopsis that outlines the most frequent objections to the belief that a Christian cannot lose salvation.
Mainly:
1) What about those who are Christians and continually live an immoral lifestyle? I.e live in sin.
2) What about those who are or claim to be Christians but later reject the faith and deny Christ? (This one always perplexed me until I realized, like myself, that "true" Christians know there is ' no turning back '.)
The problem with these two objections is the phrase “who are Christians.” The Bible declares that a "true" Christian will NOT live a continually immoral lifestyle ("1 John 3:6: No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him.") The Bible declares that anyone who departs the faith is demonstrating that he never 'truly' was a Christian ("1 John 2:19: They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.")
Therefore, it is my view that neither objection is valid. "True" Christians do NOT continually live immoral lifestyles, nor do they reject the faith and deny Christ. Such actions are proof that they were never redeemed.
Blessings,
in HIM,
Lynn
Melanie Spindler
Supporter
I had never believed in the "once saved always saved" mindset but Scripture has made me reevaluate this. All of the verses quoted here are truth--Bible Scripture that is sound. I for my answer I will set some ground rules from my understanding of Scripture: 1) Believing in our hearts (or faith) makes us righteous and confessing with our mouths (action) saves us, Romans 10:9-10. It is at the point of our conversion that God's grace is extended to us Ephesians 2:8—we are saved when these things happen. 2) The Saved are sealed with the Holy Spirit given by God 2 Corinthians 1:22 and obey God because they have the indwelling Spirit Acts 5:32. A faithful and holy life (action) is a consequence of our salvation (Luke 6:45, James 2:14-26, 3:13) and not a pre-requisite of it (Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 11:6). That is a totally different question, which I think a lot of the answers have confused with the current question. 3) We know professed "Christians" walk away from God; Galatians 5:7, 1 John 2:19; just look at people in your own life. 4) Saved Christians will be tempted and can & will sin; only Christ is perfect. We know we can grieve the Holy Spirit by the way we live (the assumption being we have the HS so that he can be grieved by us) Ephesians 4:30, Mark 14:38, Lamentations 3:40, Romans 7:14-25 5) A saved Christian (who is sealed by the HS), even when he stumbles is forgiven and given eternal life when he is repentant (meaning turning away from that sin) Romans 8:10-11 6) Grace is not license to sin Romans 6:15 7) Those who continue in unrepentant sin (either saying it is not sin or suppressing the work of the HS in their lives) ARE NOT Christ-followers even if they say they are, 1 John 3:6, Isaiah 63:9-10 8) God is outside of time & space, and does not see us linearly but sees all eternity as a whole, which is why he is ever-present and all-knowing. This is why he has chosen us for good works before we came to be, why he knows whose name is in the Book of Life, knows who is saved, knows who will rebel. Psalm 90:4,8; Psalm 39:4; Matthew 22:14; Mark 10:40; Acts 10:4, 1 Peter 2:9 The easiest way to explain is: Have faith, repent, confess, accept God’s Son and his grace and you are saved. Then the HS sanctifies, assists, leads, guides and groans for you to do right so that you may continue to be sanctified and proclaim the Good News of Christ to others. We become a living testimony to our salvation. Since God alone truly knows our hearts and since He is both at the foundation of the Book of Life and at the judgement throne in Revelation 19 SIMULTANEOUSLY-only He knows who the elect are from the get go. Someone who is saved cannot become unsaved because that makes God a liar. Those who think they are saved but don’t end up in glory, WERE NEVER SAVED TO BEGIN WITH, otherwise God would be unjust and unholy. We can fool others, we can even fool ourselves, which is why Jesus said in Matthew 7:22-23 On judgment day many will say to me, ‘Lord! Lord! We prophesied in your name and cast out demons in your name and performed many miracles in your name.’ But I will reply, ‘I never knew you. Get away from me, you who break God’s laws.’ Since salvation is a HEART ISSUE between an individual and God, I will admonish those that seek to know, love and serve the true living God to test and examine our ways…to turn back to the LORD Lamentations 3:40; To pray “Search me, O God, and know my anxious thoughts. Point out anything in me that offends you, and lead me along the path of everlasting life” Psalm 139: 23-24; and to Examine yourselves to see if your faith is genuine. Test yourselves. Surely you know that Jesus Christ is among you; if not, you have failed the test of genuine faith, 2 Corinthians 13:5. May the grace and peace of the Lord Jesus be with God’s holy people.
Chris Eleam
Supporter
Many insist that the Scriptures say: “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life.” (John 3:36, King James Version) Therefore, they conclude that once you have accepted the Lord Jesus Christ as your personal Savior, you can never again be lost. “Once saved, always saved” is their watchword. But is that what the Scriptures really say? To answer this, we need to consider everything the Bible says on the subject. We would not want to ‘deceive ourselves with false reasoning’ by reading only selected parts of God’s Word. “Once Saved, Always Saved”? Notice the inspired warning of the disciple Jude. He wrote: “Beloved ones, though I was making every effort to write you about the salvation we hold in common, I found it necessary to write you to exhort you to put up a hard fight for the faith that was once for all time delivered to the holy ones.” (Jude 3) Why did Jude write this? Because he knew that individual Christians could still lose the ‘salvation they hold in common.’ He went on to say: “I desire to remind you. . . that Jehovah, although he saved a people [the Israelites] out of the land of Egypt, afterwards destroyed those not showing faith.”—Jude 5. Jude’s warning would be pointless if Christians did not face a danger similar to that of those Israelites. Jude was not questioning the value of Jesus’ sacrifice. That sacrifice has saved us from Adamic sin, and Jesus will protect those who exercise faith in him. No one can snatch them out of his hand. But we can lose that protection. How? By doing what was done by many Israelites who were saved from Egypt. We can deliberately choose to disobey God.—Deuteronomy 30:19, 20.
Samuel Reed
Supporter
I am completely confident that true believers cannot lose their salvation! Unregenerate people can convince themselves of a false assurance like the Pharisee described by the Lord in Luke 18:10-14. Gal. 6:3 says "For if anyone thinks himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceives himself". The Pharisee was confident his soul was safe but we know one is not saved by works righteousness. The confidence must be placed in Christ alone. Romans 8:16 says "The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God"; 1 John 3:14 "We know that we know Him." I think most everyone would agree there is no such thing as reincarnation; the body dying and coming back over and over. I would suggest to you that there is no such thing as our spirit being able to reincarnate over and over again either. When our spirit is made alive by the work of God, it is alive forever! 1 John 3:14 says "We know that we have passed from death to life" and Heb. 6:11 says "show the same diligence to the full assurance of hope until the end". So, there will be evidence of the work God has worked in us. True believers will begin to practice holiness even though they still sin. There is a pound of flesh (sin) in everything we do including our most holy attempts. That is why we must rely on Christ's work and the application (by the Holy Spirit) of the work He produced in our lives. The core of the unregenerate is wholly depraved but has an outer shell which is the remnant of the original "very good" nature God made. They are able to do some outwardly good deeds but are motivated by sin (ego). The regenerate have a new regenerated core and the outer shell of it is the old sinful nature. We still sin but at our core is the Holy Spirit working repentance. So, we may look very "unsaved" at times but the Good Shepard brings us back unto Himself. Who ever heard of a good Shepard losing a sheep? Jesus is more than GOOD, He is PERFECT! The good work He began in us will be finished by Him and through Him!
D C
Supporter
What does Ezekiel 18:21-32 say about "losing" or "not losing" your salvation? 21 “But if a wicked person turns away from all the sins they have committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, that person will surely live; they will not die. 22 None of the offenses they have committed will be remembered against them. Because of the righteous things they have done, they will live. 23 Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign Lord. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live? 24 “But if a righteous person turns from their righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked person does, will they live? None of the righteous things that person has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness they are guilty of and because of the sins they have committed, they will die. 25 “Yet you say, ‘The way of the Lord is not just.’ Hear, you Israelites: Is my way unjust? Is it not your ways that are unjust? 26 If a righteous person turns from their righteousness and commits sin, they will die for it; because of the sin they have committed they will die. 27 But if a wicked person turns away from the wickedness they have committed and does what is just and right, they will save their life. 28 Because they consider all the offenses they have committed and turn away from them, that person will surely live; they will not die. 29 Yet the Israelites say, ‘The way of the Lord is not just.’ Are my ways unjust, people of Israel? Is it not your ways that are unjust? 30 “Therefore, you Israelites, I will judge each of you according to your own ways, declares the Sovereign Lord. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall. 31 Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, people of Israel? 32 For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign Lord. Repent and live!
Pastor Paz
Supporter
In order to effectively immunize, not just treat the symptom of a sickness, we must be willing to examine the symptoms and the host as well. If we can cure the host, or eliminate the host, we can correct the malady, and protect future infection and spread of the plague. Agreeably, this is divisive subject. It's interesting to read the opinions, and like a brand named label, clear to see the "designer" or the doctrinal camp the various speakers emerge from. There's a "hand-in-hand" tell tale of those who hail from the "calvanistic" arena, as they are the predominate carriers of the "eternal security" doctrine. They are also, simultaneously, the one's who operate under the cessationist doctrine, that lays the foundation for the such fallacious teachings, and, which they themselves have failed to meet the biblical criteria for speaking and teaching on behalf of The Lord Jesus Christ. Some basic common sense tells us that if a doctrine instructs us that we have been left on our own to figure it out, because the Lord, God, Holy Spirit, have backed away, then that is a clear warning that that doctrine is as errant as any teaching that would come from "men" deciphering spiritual mysteries, which is what we see today. Men, exalting themselves and their intellect, by removing the HOLY SPIRIT, and placing themselves in the seat of authority and as the one's who possess the truth. It is imperative that first accept what Jesus Christ Himself said and taught. To Ignore His statements, and enact those of others, is akin to saying you work for a particular company just because you are standing in their lobby.Jesus taught that "you must be born of the water and of the spirit, or you can not SEE or ENTER the kingdom of God" So, if you can't see it, or enter it, then you are totally lost, and have no business mingling in the affairs of things you don't understand. He then told the Apostles to "tarry", and NOT to LEAVE Jerusalem until they received the promise from the Father, the Power from on High... we know that many weeks later, that promise from the Father arrived by the evidencing of the believers being filled with the Holy Spirit. (it is the same Holy Spirit that the Apostle Peter and other bretheren saw poured out onto Cornelius and his household.) It is quite convenient that those amongst the "calvanist" camp also reject and explain away this evidence, in an effort to mitigate the validity and present day presence of the Holy Spirit. Since there is ONLY ONE Holy Spirit, He is consistent, and as described in other scriptures where the Holy Spirit was received, there was the same description of the Holy Spirit's arrival. Somewhere along the line, due to a lack of righteousness, Holiness, obedience, and outright sinful manipulations of man, this "baptism of the Holy Spirit", was hindered. Not stopped altogether, but certainly ceased amongst the "mainline" and reigning religious order of the day. Since then, it was left to "man's" efforts, and intellect, to try to play the part, relying on their own abilities. As corruption, darkness, and wickedness penetrated the "church", not only did the Roman Catholic Church no longer represent the Lord Jesus Christ, but the Holy Spirit would have no part in what was occurring, or what would transpire in the future.The reformation was the beginning of breaking away from the tyranny, corruption and evil, that become the RCC. It was the incubator for the outpouring of the Holy Spirit that would occur later. That said, those who are quick to quote scriptures that "hold GOD hostage" to His word, are simply carnal men, boasting their own supposed intelligence, and grossly fail to consider the ones to whom God was speaking to- Man. Man is the one who voids the covenant, who removes himself from God's hand, who separates himself from that LOVE of God, and who was kicked out of the wedding feast. Made it all the way, only to be kicked out! "Depart from me, I never knew you", etc, EternalSecurity what?
Nathan Toronga
Supporter
"Can a Christian lose salvation?" The answer is in two parts: PART ONE. There are those who 'think' they are Christians - those who only choose to be called "Christians", but denying the power thereof. 2 Timothy 3:5; Isaiah 4:1. What is the power of Christianity? Obedience. Period. These are they who will be disowned on the Last Day, by the Messiah. "... I NEVER knew you. Away from me, you EVIL doers!" Matthew 7:23. (What is to sin, or 'to do evil'? It is transgression of the law. 1 John 3:4 KJV) Anyone who does not continue to the end, effectively NEVER started, though we as humans would have thought they did. They were never saved in the first place. 1 John 2:19; Matthew 13:24-30. That is the first part of my answer. There is a clear distinction between the saved and the 'crowd'. I invite you, solemnly, to get out of the crowd and be with the saved. PART TWO. Indeed, the saved CANNOT lose their salvation. It's that simple. And to know if you're saved is also simple: "No one who lives in Him continues to sin (to transgress the law - 1 John 3:4). No-one who continues to SIN has has either seen Him or known Him". 1 John 3:9 "No-one who is born of God will continue to sin." (sin as defined) We also have this proof: "IF you love me, you will keep my Commandments." John 14:15 The SAVED will not lose their salvation. They will fall, and He will intercede for them. 1 John 2:1. Bless.
Jim New
Supporter
We can lose our salvation as scripture speaks of in Matthew 13:18-23 and Luke 8:13. Matt 13:19-23: - the evil one comes and snatches away what was SOWN in his heart! - When troubles or persecution come because of the word, he quickly falls away. - the worries of this life, the deceitfulness of wealth choke the plant and make it unfruitful. Satan is after the believer, not the ones who are already going to hell. God tells us to put on the whole armor of God because He knows we can lose our salvation, or why even mention this?
Ema Sabau
Supporter
The salvation is not a Driver license card or a visa card which can be lost. Salvation is a state of our spirit,soul and body trough the faint in Jesus sacrifice for our redemption . We are pruned into the truth spiritual vine which is Jesus Christ. Before Jesus death and resurrection Israel was God's vine. As Jim N presented in great detail the Scripture pertaining this subject I will not repeat those but I want to give one example able to reflect what I want to say. I am an american citizen trough religious asylum . On the Citizen Certificate is no any expiration date. Which make it for ever with no expiration. But there were cases when people with such Certificate were kicked out of this country. Those people couldn't claim that was wrong because their Certificate didn't "expire". They couldn't say this country which received them with open arms is unfair kicking them out with a valid citizen Certificate in their hands. The Certificate was not expired but they disqualified to stay here because of their wrong choice on doing bad thinks unaccepted in this country. Did they lose the Certificate? No but was not god for them because they were disqualify to live here anymore. Citizenship is grace accorded to any undeserving person (including myself there) coming in USA. It is my part to live to the and my life to honor the grace received. I didn't do anything to deserve it but I can do thinks to deprave me of this privilege. I have to know and do whatever I know to do in order to enjoy the life offered me in this country. This is how I see the grace of salvation. If I look at salvation like something which God has no right to disqualify somebody of it is limiting God. In other words is like saying; " Sorry God, I found you in a "good mud" one day to save me. Now You have no right to deprave me of it. It is mine for ever no matter how I live". I think that is very foolish way to think about God. The Bible is full of warning regarding the life children of God must live on this ungodly wold. Why are those warning if there is no any danger. I have heard this explanation regarding of losing salvation: " If we teach believers about losing salvation that will make following of Christ a real unhappy and unpleasant life." I have more then 40 years of marriage happy and enjoyable. Do I believe in divorce ? Yes I do. Did that made my marriage unhappy one? No,No,No. Thousand time No.The reality of divorce is there but our marriage was and is how it is because of God's love and blessing. So that is a big lie of satan on that teaching. I saw along my life this reality : losing of salvation is theory(nobody proofed its reality so far) based on the Scripture. Non losing salvation is theory(so far) based on Scripture. Both side have arguments. But there is one argument and that is the argument of life experience. Losing salvation produced christians of high quality of life with Christ. Eternal salvation produced christians you all see around us........ I pray to God to bless us who are living the end of the time with wisdom in knowing and applying God's word for our joy here and great redemption in the future.
Rusty Black
Supporter
1 Corinthians 1:8-9 “He will also keep you firm to the end so that you will be blameless on the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is faithful, who has called you into fellowship with his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.”
Mark Vestal
Supporter
When a person believes the gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-4), they are sealed with the holy Spirit until the day of redemption (Ephesians 4:30). If you could lose your salvation, how would you gain it back, when faith alone in Christ and His accomplishment for you on the cross is the only means of obtaining it (Ephesians 2:8-9)? Ephesians 1:12-13: "12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. 13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise," Jesus Christ from Heaven gave our apostle Paul the only gospel that saves today during God's dispensation of grace, (Ephesians 3:2). Paul's gospel: 1 Corinthians 15:1-4: "Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:" When you believe that Jesus Christ died on the cross for our sins, and that He was buried, but rose again on the 3rd day, you are accepting God's free gift (Ephesians 2:8-9). You have accepted Jesus Christ as your savior in doing so (Ephesians 1:13), and are instantly sealed with the holy Spirit of promise until Christ returns to redeem you (Ephesians 4:30), and thankfully not just until your next sin! Romans 8:38-39 "For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."
Brad Schmidt
Supporter
One of the most important foundational truths is the security we have in our salvation, which can never be lost. Three general aspects encompass our security: 1) Jesus Christ will never push us away based on anything that we will do (John 6:37); therefore, there is nothing we are going to do that will cause Jesus to reject us. 2) Jesus Christ will keep us strong to the end (I Corinthians 1:8), so cannot become weak and fall away since our strength is not based on ourselves, but on Him 3) Satan or any other demonic being cannot take us out of our salvation (John 10:27-30); therefore, nothing can pull us away from our Lord and our salvation Based on the above, there is no way we can lose our salvation: Jesus will not push us away, we cannot get weak and fall away, and Satan cannot pull us away. Would recommend checking out the website FoundationsForOurFaith.net for a more thorough study on the security of our salvation. God Bless
Wayne Newcomb
Supporter
Once saved always saved is a cry often give by preachers. This cry is not true. Bible says if you know the truth and you continue to sin willfully there remains no more sacrifice. Also, Satan himself wrapped his wings around God but was cast into the lake of fire for eternity. That show that salvation can be lost. Bible also says without holiness no man shall see the Lord.
Susan Maree Jeavons
Supporter
I am studying the Geneva Bible and the KJV. I believe the answers lie in Ephesians 2:8-101599 Geneva Bible (GNV). 8 For by [a]grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God, 9 [b]Not of works, lest any man should boast himself. 10 For we are [c]his workmanship created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath ordained, that we should walk in them. Footnotes: a.Ephesians 2:8 So then, Grace, that is to say, the gift of God, and faith, do stand one with another, to which two these are contrary, To be saved by ourselves, or by our works. Therefore what mean they which would join together things of so contrary nature? b.Ephesians 2:9 He taketh away expressly and namely from our works the praise of justification, seeing that the good works themselves are the effects of grace in us. c.Ephesians 2:10 He speaketh here of grace, and not of nature: therefore be the works never so good, look what they are, they are it of grace. I often become confused reading all of the replies, as one contradicts the other, but this makes it much easier than it needs to be. I am a 65-year-old widow saved by the Grace of our Lord. Blessings and Love to you all. I enjoy reading your replies.
Kilian Kean
Supporter
Did you know that the Law in the Old Testament has no provision for a woman to divorce her husband? The only way out of a marriage was death or a written divorce from her husband. Did you know that during the engagement period also known as the “betrothal”, the couple was considered to be "as if" married? In order to break the engagement, the man had to write a certificate of divorce for the woman to be released. Again, the law has no provision for the woman to get out of the engagement period. Only death or a written divorce from the man was allowed. When you believe in Jesus for the removal of your sins, you become part of the body of Christ which is called the “bride” of Christ. Believers are engaged to Jesus and the marriage will happen after the rapture in heaven as shown in Revelation 19:6-9. We as the bride have no way of breaking this engagement with Jesus. There is no provision for us, the bride, to break the engagement in the law. Once you become a member of the bride of Christ, the only way out is for the groom to write you a divorce certificate, and rest assured that Jesus will never do that! He went to the cross for you. John 10:27-30 There is no way that you can lose your salvation. Nothing can separate you from being His bride. Romans 8:37-39 However, if you live a life that does not reflect what God desires after you accept Jesus as Lord, then you forfeit your inheritance in heaven. Inheritance are the rewards in heaven you receive for doing the work God has for you here on earth. 2 Corinthians 5:10 There will be many people in heaven who will have no rewards and no position. Yes, there will be ranks of people in heaven. Romans 8:16-17 Notice that suffering for Christ is a condition of inheritance. In what ways have you suffered for Christ's sake? How about being told not to speak to people at work about what God has done for you? I would think that men like Paul will be high standing individuals with many crowns of rewards and positions of honor in the heavenly places. Such people suffered much for the sake of Jesus and they performed great works on earth to help the cause of Christ; the plan of God to succeed. As such, great inheritance awaits them in glory. 1 Corinthians 3:9-15 What rewards await us? Crowns for sure; I know of five crowns awaiting the faithful believers. Crown of Glory – for doing the work God has placed in front of you. 1 Peter 5:1-4 Crown of Righteousness – for keeping the faith. 2 Timothy 4:7-8 Crown of Life – for enduring temptation and faithfulness. Revelation 2:10 Crown of Exultation (Crown of Rejoicing) – for being part of bringing others to Jesus (planting, watering, harvesting) 1 Thessalonians 2:19-20 Crown of Incorruptible (Crown of Victory) – for a self-disciplined life honoring God with your body and living. 1 Corinthians 9:25
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