Psalm 78:18 They willfully put God to the test by demanding the food they craved. Psalm 78:41 Again and again they put God to the test; they vexed the Holy One of Israel. Psalm 78:56 But they put God to the test and rebelled against the Most High; they did not keep his statutes.
Psalms 78:1 - 72
ESV - 1 Give ear, O my people, to my teaching; incline your ears to the words of my mouth! 2 I will open my mouth in a parable; I will utter dark sayings from of old.
For follow-up discussion and general commentary on the topic. Comments are sorted chronologically.
Referring to Psalm 139:16: if our days were already written in God's book even before we existed, can we therefore believe that our time of death or departure is the time that is set and cannot be changed? Is there such a thing as an “untimely death,” and if so, doesn’t that contradict what God has said in Psalm 139:16 and reveal that one is not trusting or believing in Gods word?
Death can come in many ways and there is no guarantee that wearing a mask will prevent one from contracting or dying from Covid-19. Considering how this specific virus is being used politically to scare and control the population, how much can I trust certain political leaders or certain medical professionals for that matter?
We have to consider how these forced lock downs and loss of jobs and businesses have caused despair and deaths that aren’t being reported. Alcohol, drug abuse, spouse abuse and suicides have risen dramatically, but mainly all you see on the news are of new cases and deaths from Covid and more lockdowns and unsubstantiated restrictions. People’s behavior has gotten erratic, irrational and even violent.
There’s a lot to consider and more to be considered. For example, the use of proven drugs like hydroxychloroquine and remdesivire that many doctors are using and have shown to help many recover that have been outlawed in the United States and stifled by the mainstream media. Why? It’s become politicized. I could go on, but with all that said, Psalm 139:16 is clear and is God's Word.
The media doesn't stifle drugs. The media reports what is being said and done in a society. The lies you mention are numerous. SOME doctors have said that the drugs you're saying are effective, ARE NOT EFFECTIVE. SOME (so I'm told, I haven't heard them, I don't watch that station) have testified that the drugs you list ARE EFFECTIVE. Who are we to believe? There are two opposing sides to this like there is to EVERYTHING nowadays.
Which side has lied the most? Which side has people being indicted? Which side has people quitting the team and joining the other team? Is there any doubt where the confusion is being manufactured?
Honest answers to these questions will help a person know whether to listen to one voice or another. I don't think it's that hard to distinguish lies from truth.
When Dr King was leading a movement to fight against inequality and injustice it was EASY to recognize who Bull Connor, George Wallace, Lester Maddox, Orval Faubus, Strom Thurmond, Jesse Helms, just to name a few, were. It wasn't difficult to see how wrong they were IN THEIR SPIRITS. The men and women who carry the baton of division and spiritual emptiness, fomented by lies and deceit, are very recognizable, just like those men were. They were excused by even "the church" then, just as that kind are being given that same kind of pass now for their lies and deceit. Dr King and "his team" were vilified instead.
Will this ever cease?
People who say nothing about "state mandated" wearing of seatbelts "forcing everybody into a secular" WHATEVER....
I hope the guy on his way out of the whitehouse doesn't say 'seatbelts are not good, I can't see myself wearing them.'
If he does the result will be the same as it is with this virus. People will die needlessly. That is, people who listen to incompetent people advising them about things they know nothing about.
I believe God's displeasure with the direction this country has gone in is being witnessed.
Something similar to this happened when instead of listening to Elijah the people listened to Jezebel and Ahab. IN THAT ORDER...
Bravo Danny. This is not God's world, it is man's, John 18:36. Caring for your neighbor is at the core of the Christian's beliefs. Government mandated masks is fulfilling that command. Bringing political views into the equation only confuses and kills.
My father always told me that the government trying to enforce moral laws was futile. Prostitution, corruption, drug crimes and most others are hard to enforce and fail to stem the tide. You also can't change the behavior of the general populace who refuses to listen to reason and sanity.
As Christians, we are COMMANDED to love and care for our fellow men and women, Mark 12:30-31. I cannot fathom any believer refusing to do everything in their power to fulfill this edict from God. It's unfortunate that many so called "Christians" are refusing to do this by flouting reason for political stands.
Drugs have not been proven to work thus far to combat this virus. Hydroxychloroquine is a myth and will not combat this virus. The president of Brazil can testify to that.
Wearing a mask, washing your hands and anything else that can be done to combat COVID-19 should be done by everyone, believer and non-believer alike. in my opinion, those who refuse, for political reasons, cannot be called a Christian.
I'm sorry John, but I disagree with your last statement. I think you mean when you say, "they can't be called Christian," you mean that they are not "believers." I don't buy that.
There is no litmus test to pass as PROOF that a person believes in Jesus as the Son of God, sent to save the world from sin and death.
Yes we're told to love each other. To say we are "commanded" to love each other makes it sound like if we don't ACT in loving ways toward each other we fail a test that VOIDS our CONFESSION. No one can be forced to "feel" a certain way.
I don't know about anyone else, but I CONFESS to God the things I do and don't do that makes me a sinner. I have a CONFESSION of faith in Jesus. I suspect these other "christians" do too.
Not wearing a face covering because you're tethered to a political party or identity is not a "dealbreaker" with Jesus, anymore than wearing one is a deal maker. If we had to act in loving ways toward each other or be lost without a Savior we'd all perish.
That's the beauty of "christianity." It's the truth. We are born unbelievers. When we go from unbelieving to believing in Jesus, we are CHANGED. Then God sends His Spirit to come and live in us to teach, lead, guide, and yes, convict of sin.
Remember this: All our sins were paid for at the cross. Our accounts were updated when FIRST we believed.
God doesn't tell us to come back when we learn to love our neighbor. If He did we'd all perish....
Back to the issue of masks, studies of the virus prove that coronavirus is not airborne. It can only be transmitted by water droplets which are airborne. Although the virus is very small the water droplets are big enough to be caught by the cloth of our masks. So long as our mouth and nose is covered by the mask we should not breathe in the water droplets containing the virus. We also must avoid playIng with our masks and touching our face.
We have saliva in our mouths which provides all the water droplets necessary to transmit the virus. So when we breathe, talk, sing, shout, laugh or cry we can transmit the virus.
When we wear a mask, all that moisture from our mouths, is captured in the fabric of the mask. Just try wearing a mask for 1 hour and see how much moisture is captured inside.
These are the scientific reasons why health authorities are mandating the wearing of masks. They do protect us. Of course we can’t neglect the other protective measures like frequent hand washing, hand sanitizing in public places and social distancing.
Obedience or disobedience to any of God’s commands does not save or condemn us, but obedience does prove and demonstrate that our faith in Jesus is authentic and genuine.
When Jesus was asked about the greatest commandments he said “Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength; and love your neighbour as yourself.
We demonstrate our live for God when we obey the health orders of the government authorities that God has sovereignly instituted for our benefit.
We demonstrate our love for other people when we care about their health and welfare; by easing our hands, using hand sanitizer, keeping social distance, and wearing a mask, so they will feel safe and less anxious during this health pandemic.
Danny, if we cannot love each other, as Jesus asked us to do, we cannot fulfill our calling as believers. A conscious effort to not love each other is contrary to everything Jesus stood for. Romans 12:9 states that love must be genuine - sincere. That is not open for debate. If your love is not sincere, then your transformation from heathen to believer is not complete. "I am a believer in Jesus Christ. Now don't tell me to wear a mask." Sincere?
There is a litmus test for all believers. If you cannot act the way Jesus wants us to act, which includes loving our neighbor, then you cannot truly believe in Jesus Christ. Accepting Christ means accepting everything without question or pause. Picking and choosing isn't part of the process.
I will debate with you about the existence of hell or the age of the earth, but that will not change our relationship with God. Those interpretations are not germane to salvation. But if I deny love for my fellow man, that's not an interpretation which is debatable. That is denying Jesus' command to love each other as ourselves. If we can't "walk the walk" then everything else is futile or window dressing and won't save you!
I don't judge one's salvation. I can only control what I do. Having a reckless disregard for others isn't what Christians do. As for me - Joshua 24:15.
John you are describing, in my opinion, what it means to be a Christian. I'm talking about what it is to be a "believer."
I think Jerry Falwell Jr is a believer, but not what is "meant" by what it is to be "a Christian."
Jesus spoke of people "believing" IN HIM. Many today talk about "ACTING like Christians." He never used the term "christian." It's a self appointed title in the same manner as "Pharisee," and has very similar implications. (This is all just my own opinion, and nothing more. The bible doesn't say this).
If asked, a Pharisee could recite the disqualifications for being in relationship with Jehovah. Consequently, Jesus, who healed, fed, comforted the bereaved and raised the dead, was rejected by them and was said by them to be demon possessed. He didn't "act" like a traditional "religious" person. If you'll notice, NONE OF THE PROPHETS did.
I'm not trying to say "Its Okay, love for others don't matter." It does matter. But "SAYING" you love everybody won't get you saved. There's NOTHING we can say or DO that will get us saved.
If Jesus had not died IN OUR STEAD, confessing our sin would only convict us. After His sacrifice, our confession is now our path to redemption.
It's a great thing to have mastered the att of loving your enemies. Faith in Jesus is greater.
Let me say this: as humble as Jesus was /is, I can't fathom Him naming "a religion" or His followers to bring Himself glory, the way "christian" does. It's just not His style, as far as I can tell. I don't think He minds, I just don't think He'd do it that way. He called us "believers," and that's good enough for me. He said we ought to love each other, so it has to be the right thing, so I believe that too. He said we should visit the sick, feed the hungry, clothe them that were in need of clothing, and other ACTS of love, just to name a few ACTS of love. These things should be done for OUR ENEMIES. EVERYBODY does them for their friends...
This is the love He was trying to teach Brother John. Being kind in word is a very easy thing to do (although I can struggle with that on many days). Feeding and clothing people who you've been at war with is not so easy. Or, doing those things for "strangers." The best thing to do is stay prayerful.
I believe that God gave us doctors and uses them to help us. He is telling us to use masks through his doctors and scientists. Praise Elohim and his son Yeashua.
My opinion is that pride and self-will is causing many to not wear the mask. Watch the expressions on the faces of the ones that are not wearing masks. I would add Scriptures but many times we add Scriptures to back up our opinions on matters.
When we are at church we are in God's house, and those of us are there have no known symptoms of the virus. So YES, I feel we are in God's hands. We should not have to wear a mask.
Daniel, if you think God protects you from being reckless, you have the wrong idea about God, my opinion. Stand in front of a train and declare that you cannot be hurt because of your belief in God and you will be run over and killed.
Don't put God to the test concerning your life on Earth. Jesus said it plainly, "This is not My Kingdom." (John 18:36) This is man's kingdom and man is sinful and this world is sinful. You only have one certainty with Jesus Christ and that is eternal life. And that eternal life is with Him only. Until that day, you are subject to this world and all the sickness that is in it.
Read the other discussions in this thread. You are in God's hands, but He cannot fix anyone being reckless with their life or the lives of others. We are commanded to love one another and that includes safeguarding their health and safety. Don't be fooled by thinking God will save you and everyone around you - especially in a church setting - if you don't take the proper precautions. It has been seen time and time again that churches offer no safety from this virus unless they practice proper precautions.
As I said, do not put God to any test. I'm afraid you will lose.