Where does the narrative, in Daniel Chapter 11, turn from past to future?


Daniel 11:1 - 45

ESV - 1 And as for me, in the first year of Darius the Mede, I stood up to confirm and strengthen him. 2 And now I will show you the truth. Behold, three more kings shall arise in Persia, and a fourth shall be far richer than all of them. And when he has become strong through his riches, he shall stir up all against the kingdom of Greece.

Clarify Share Report Asked November 10 2017 Me at sawdust fest 2b Craig Mcelheny

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Eced7a1f c81d 42f4 95ea 9d5719dce241 Singapore Moses Messenger of God, CEO in IT industry, Astronaut, Scientist
The future Antichrist is called as the King of the North.

Dan. 11:36--Dan. 12:13 definitely identifies the Future Antichrist as the king of the north (Syria) at the time of the end. The whole purpose of this vision was to show "what shall befall thy people (Israel) in the latter days" (Dan. 10:14) under the last Syrian king who is foreshadowed by Antiochus Epiphanes (Dan. 11:21-34), and to narrow down the coming of Antichrist geographically, from the 4 divisions of Grecia to one--the Syrian division.

The visions of Dan. 2 and Dan. 7 were given to show the formation of 10 kingdoms inside the old Roman Empire and reveal that the Antichrist would come out of one of these 10 kingdoms and lead these nations against Christ at His second coming. The purpose of Dan. 8 was to give additional information to that of Dan. 2 and Dan. 7--to narrow down the coming of Antichrist geographically, from the 10 kingdoms to the 4 divisions of the Grecian Empire which will make up 4 of the 10 kingdoms of the Revised Roman Empire before Antichrist comes. The purpose of the last vision (Dan. 10:1--Dan. 12:13) was to narrow down the coming of Antichrist geographically, from the 4 divisions of the Grecian Empire to one of these divisons, the Syrian, and complete the visions of Daniel concerning the last days and the reign of the Messiah. Dan. 11:35--Dan. 12:13 gives the third and last description of the Antichrist in Daniel. 

From Dan. 11:36 to the end of the book the future Antichrist and events connected with the last Syrian king before the second coming of Christ are predicted as follows;

❶ Give further information of the little horn or Antichrist (Dan. 11:36--Dan. 12:7) 
❷ Identify Antichrist as the king of the north (Dan. 11:36-45) 
❸ Complete the revelation of the Revised Roman and Revived Grecian empires (Dan. 2:40-43; 7:23-24)
❹ Narrow down the coming of the Antichrist geographically, from the 10 kingdoms of Dan. 2 and 7 and the 4 kingdoms of Dan. 8 to one of these kingdoms--Syria (Dan. 7:23-24; 8:9-14,20-25; 11:36-45) 
❺ Explain more fully when, why, and how the Antichrist will come (Dan. 7:23-24; 8:9-14,20-25; 9:27; 11:36-45) 
❻ Complete the revelation of the last day wars (Dan. 2:40-45; 7:23-24; 8:9-14,20-25; 11:40-45) 
❼ Show the operation of satanic powers over the kingdoms of this world (Dan. 10:12-21; 11:1; 12:1)

Hope these clarify

November 11 2017 1 response Vote Up Share Report

Me at sawdust fest 2b Craig Mcelheny Christian Author
Keeping it simple:
There are no commentaries that I know of that don’t agree on who the person in verse 19 of Daniel 11 is. It is Antiochus III, the Great. The question is: Who are the people in verses 20 and 21? Clearly, they are two people that arise out of the ‘estate/place’ of Antiochus III - out of his kingdom, as it were. Specifically out of the realm of the Seleucid Empire. Here are the two verses in question:

Daniel 11:20-21 (NASB) 
20 "Then in his place one will arise who will send an oppressor through the Jewel of his kingdom; yet within a few days he will be shattered, though not in anger nor in battle. 
21 "In his place a despicable person will arise, on whom the honor of kingship has not been conferred, but he will come in a time of tranquility and seize the kingdom by intrigue.” 

If you look at the family tree of the Seleucid Empire (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seleucid_Empire#Family_tree_of_Seleucids) there are two possibilities for the person in verse 20:
1.	Seleucus IV Philopator 187-175BC, the currently accepted choice by most scholars.
2.	Antiochus IV Epiphanes 175-164BC, the currently accepted choice for vss. 21-35.

It is easy to see why the choices are defined as stated. The kings are in chronological order, but there is a slight problem with that. Verse 20 states that this person will perish, “though not in anger nor in battle.” There are two criteria that need to be fulfilled by the person’s death in verse 20. Antiochus IV Epiphanes meets those criteria, Seleucus IV Philopator does not.
Antiochus IV died in route to acquire riches for his war chest, from an unknown disease.
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiochus_IV_Epiphanes Final Years, quote from 2 Maccabees 9:5-9, NRSV). He did not die in anger. Seleucus IV died in anger, as he was assassinated by Heliodorus in 175BC, same article, Rise to Power:

“Seleucus was assassinated by the usurper Heliodorus in 175 BC, but Antiochus in turn ousted him. Seleucus' legitimate heir Demetrius I Soter was still a hostage in Rome, so Antiochus seized the throne for himself with the help of King Eumenes II of Pergamon, proclaiming himself co-regent with another son of Seleucus, an infant named Antiochus (whom he then murdered a few years later).”

As you can see, the means by which Antiochus IV seized the kingdom, was not by intrigue as it states in vs. 21, nor was it during a time of tranquility. So, Antiochus IV Epiphanes does not fit the description in vs. 21, but he does fit that of verse 20. And Seleucus IV Philopator does not fit the description in vs. 20.

Therefore, it can be concluded that the turning point from past to future lies at vs. 21, where the description turns to the Antichrist, and his exploits up to and including his death (vs. 45), and even to the return of the Lord for the Rapture at the end of the Age (Dan. 12:11-13) as Daniel 12 is merely a continuation of the vision in Daniel 11.

December 25 2019 0 responses Vote Up Share Report

Mini Kenneth Heck
In Daniel, Chapter 11, the future is first indicated in verse 33, where the fall of the Jewish state is said to occur for many days - and on until the time of the end (verse 34). The remainder of the chapter describes the time of the 10-horned beast. 

Since Israel has been informally established as a nation, we are nearing the time of the end when the beast will be rising up to dominate the Israeli state, and others in the region, before the times of the Gentiles comes to an end with his defeat (Rev.10:6) at the battle with kings of the east. Then Israel will be truly independent of any other power or organization of states.

November 11 2017 10 responses Vote Up Share Report

Mini Aurel Gheorghe
Although there are different interpretations of Daniel 11 most Bible scholars believe that the vision begins with King Cyrus and ends with God’s people delivered. 

Dan 11:2 the “fourth” king of Persia after Cyrus was Xerxes (Ahasuerus), the husband of Queen Esther.

Dan 11:3-4 deals with Alexander’s conquests and the subsequent four divisions of his kingdom. 

Dan 11:5-15 details the rulers and activities of the divided kingdom of Greece. Ultimately two of these divisions came to dominate and the Bible calls them “The King of the North,” and “The King of the South.” 

The enemies of Israel, (Babylon and Egypt) always attacked from the north and the south. Thus “The King of the North” and “The King of the South” symbolizes the adversaries of God’s people. This entire vision depicts these enemies as warring powers against God’s people.

Dan 11:16-20 applies to the Pagan Roman Empire; the “King of the North” that “none shall stand before.” In 63 BC the Roman General Pompey declared Judea a Roman protectorate.

Dan 11: 17-19 applies to Julius Caesar, ending with his assassination. Caesar Augustus, who, at the time of Christ’s birth, decreed that “the entire world should be taxed” (Luke 2:1), is pointed out in Dan 11:20.

Dan 11:21-24 is about the Pagan Rome with verse 22 being a reference to this power’s part in Christ’s death.

Dan 11:25-30 refers to the civil war between Octavian Augustus as “King of the North” in conflict with Mark Antony and Cleopatra in Egypt as “King of the South” in 31 BC.

Dan 11:31-35 "The abomination that makes desolate” refers here to the Church of Rome and points to the Reformation period and the persecution of “heretics” by the Catholic Papacy.

Dan 11:36-39 is describing the Papal church which also parallels the descriptions of the “little horn” in Dan 7 and Dan 8. 

Dan 11:40-45 depicts events leading up to the destruction of the Papacy which is portrayed as “the king of the north.” The rise and fall of this same power, at the end of time, under the symbolism of Babylon the Great, is portrayed in Rev 17:7-11.

Daniel tells that “the King of the North” will face an adversary symbolized by “the King of the South,” and God’s people are caught in the middle. This indicates that Catholicism will be attacked in some manner by “the King of the South” at “the time of the end.” Some believe that the “King of the South,” who opposes Catholicism is atheism and moral relativism. 

In verse 45 the Papacy is said to place “his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain.” In scripture “Holy Mountain” refers to both God’s true Church on Earth and to heaven itself, where Jesus carries on His high priestly ministry today (Ezekiel 28:12-15; Isaiah 65:25; Daniel 9:16; Zechariah 8:3; Joel 3:17). Thus, scholars see in these verses a picture of Satan, through the Papacy, putting itself between the “seas” (the people) and the “glorious holy mountain” (God’s true church and Christ’s sanctuary ministry in heaven).

November 11 2017 2 responses Vote Up Share Report

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